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How Did John Piper Become A Calvinist?

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Van

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Alan Gross said:
Hieronymus. A.D. 390. SNIP
”
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Note the long copy and paste post of the non-germane. Humans do not save themselves and this is not in dispute. The Calvinists bring it up as a strawman deflection knowing they post for the purpose of dragging a red herring across the discussion.
 
V

Van

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Romans 9:16 demonstrates some of the fallen will to be saved to no avail and some strive to be saved to no avail. Thus Romans 9:16 proves the "total spiritual inability" of Calvinism is false doctrine. This is the truth so desperately being hidden by smokescreed.
 
atpollard

atpollard

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George Antonios said:
And almost all freewill in relation to a sacrifice prefiguring Christ's sacrifice...almost like the Lord foresaw the heresy of Calvinism...almost.
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Yup, except only God's CHOSEN PEOPLE can make a Freewill Offering to the LORD, all others cannot even enter the court to see the offering being made. Just like the Doctrines of Grace affirm. :)
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

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George Antonios said:
You keep saying that, yet in our previous interactions:

1) You had to change chosen us in him before the foundation of the world to chosen us [to be] in him before the foundation of the world
2) You did not believe "the words on the page" when shown verses that said that people were saved by faith, not just through
3) You can't believe that God so loved the world is...the world...you know, "the words on the page".
4) you do not believe that slain from the foundation of the world means the Lamb was actually slain back then, though you do believe that chosen in him before the foundation of the world means we were actually chosen back then...you know..."words on the page"...
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1) You had to change chosen us in him before the foundation of the world to chosen us [to be] in him before the foundation of the world

Inspiration does not always follow the same set of tracks.

Clarification, Variations in expression, Commentary, and emphasis are not indictments for having to change the words on the page. The words remain with better understanding.


2) You did not believe "the words on the page" when shown verses that said that people were saved by faith, not just through

don't base your "salvation" and Eternal Destiny on prepositions.


3) You can't believe that God so loved the world is...the world...you know, "the words on the page".

"love not the world"


4) you do not believe that slain from the foundation of the world means the Lamb was actually slain back then, though you do believe that chosen in him before the foundation of the world means we were actually chosen back then...you know..."words on the page"...

"as" indicates a simile.

While you are keeping score, investigate the Spiritual Reality of the sin that condemns the lost.
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

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atpollard said:
Yup, except only God's CHOSEN PEOPLE can make a Freewill Offering to the LORD, all others cannot even enter the court to see the offering being made. Just like the Doctrines of Grace affirm. :)
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You do realize that most of the individuals that made up Israel and were offering those freewill offerings were also rebellious, hard-hearted, religious yet unjust men, reprobate silver, right?
 
Sai

Sai

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atpollard said:
No argument from me, but the point I was making is that I do not begin any effort to share the "good news" with the fact that Salvation was offered to the Jews first and is only now available to non-Jews. Is that a significant point in YOUR evangelization efforts?

(This stems from why Calvinists do not quote one specific verse as often as another.)
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You violate the grammar here, salvation continues to be to the Jew first or it no longer remains the power of God unto salvation.
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
Indeed! And don't forget Ezra 7:13 tsk tsk tsk
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God's Saved children WERE NOT BOUND TO GO.

"...this decree did not oblige them to go whether they would or not; for they might, notwithstanding this, continue if they pleased; it only gave them leave to make use of the present opportunity of going along with Ezra, if they chose it. ~ Gill

What a big deal!!

Then, we have individuals trusting their soul to God's people making a love offering or being given latitude in a Decree.

How?

By saying 'those words' have something to do with their Eternal Life?

whew.

 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
This like our noble brother @

Lev_22:18 Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his freewill offerings, which they will offer unto the LORD for a burnt offering;
Lev_22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.
Lev_22:23 Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Lev_23:38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Num_15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Num_29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings, for your burnt offerings, and for your meat offerings, and for your drink offerings, and for your peace offerings.
Deu_12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
Deu_12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
Deu_16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu_23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.
2Ch_31:14 And Kore the son of Imnah the Levite, the porter toward the east, was over the freewill offerings of God, to distribute the oblations of the LORD, and the most holy things.
Ezr_1:4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.
Ezr_3:5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD.
Ezr_7:13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
Ezr_7:16 And all the silver and gold that thou canst find in all the province of Babylon, with the freewill offering of the people, and of the priests, offering willingly for the house of their God which is in Jerusalem:
Ezr_8:28 And I said unto them, Ye are holy unto the LORD; the vessels are holy also; and the silver and the gold are a freewill offering unto the LORD God of your fathers.
Psa_119:108 Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.

And almost all freewill in relation to a sacrifice prefiguring Christ's sacrifice...almost like the Lord foresaw the heresy of Calvinism...almost.
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LOL, are you saved by performing the Mosaic Law sacrifices, George?

I always find it funny when a person attempts to take the freewill sacrifices of the Mosaic Law and apply it to the capacity to choose YHWH as their Savior as opposed to the thousands of other gods in the pantheon.

How sad it is when brother's in Christ attempt to bring YHWH down to the level of other gods and make humans the controllers of their own salvation.
 
atpollard

atpollard

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Sai said:
You violate the grammar here, salvation continues to be to the Jew first or it no longer remains the power of God unto salvation.
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You avoided my question and are deliberately dragging me into a tangental topic. Why is that?

  • To reiterate:
  • "I do not begin any effort to share the 'good news' with the fact that Salvation was offered to the Jews first and is only now available to non-Jews."
  • Is that a significant point in YOUR evangelization efforts?
To clarify, the this discussion started with ... Why do Calvinists not emphasize Act 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles." and teach that God does not judge, but men judge themselves unworthy of eternal life. So you are dragging me rather far from my original answer to this simple question, ignoring my questions, and I have no idea what you hope to accomplish. Preaching to a Jew is not a prerequisite for my sharing the gospel with a non-Jew.
 
Wesley Briggman

Wesley Briggman

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Sai said:
Man does have free will it is just limited by his sin nature.
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Please share your thoughts concerning the limitations that the sin nature puts on free will and documentation to support your views.

Who was the first created being to invoke his will?
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

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AustinC said:
LOL, are you saved by performing the Mosaic Law sacrifices, George?

I always find it funny when a person attempts to take the freewill sacrifices of the Mosaic Law and apply it to the capacity to choose YHWH as their Savior as opposed to the thousands of other gods in the pantheon.

How sad it is when brother's in Christ attempt to bring YHWH down to the level of other gods and make humans the controllers of their own salvation.
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Hunh?
 
Wesley Briggman

Wesley Briggman

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Alan Gross said:
Adam sinned.
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Lucifer was the first created being to invoke his will. Therefore I, in agreement with Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon and many other theologians, conclude that the doctrine of free will is a lie of Satan.

It has been my observation that professing Christians who believe they have free will ignorantly attribute it to God.

[Isa 14:12-14 KJV] 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Luther:
"https://archive.org/stream/martinlutheronth00luthuoft/martinlutheronth00luthuoft_djvu.txt

Spurgeon:
The Spurgeon Center
 
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