ct 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
You like other Calvinist are always taking things out of Context. Even Babes in Christ don't understand the meat of the word
MB
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How Free Will Turns the Gospel into Law and Grace into Works.
- Thread starter 1689Dave
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MB
Acts 28:28 says gentiles will hear it.
You know Dave you are a hopeless case. You would reject anything I say
So what's the use in answering you ?
MB
Rockson
Active Member
So why does thinking about it to believe disqualify true belief?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It wasn't meant to be.
It was meant to be objective and hopefully, helpful.
I'll keep trying to hone my writing skills so as not to come off as seeming offensive.
Sure they are...every day.
For example:
Rain falls from the sky onto a farmer's field...it's a gift from God ( Matthew 5:45 ).
The farmer just sits there while it happens.
What's more is, he had absolutely no control over whether the rain that he needed, actually fell from the sky.
Freely given, and freely received.
Again, you and I see gift giving completely different.
Gifts are never "offered"...they are given and received. ----------------------------------------->That is a love transaction.
Items that are for sale are never "given", they are offered, and purchased. ----------->That is a business transaction.
If God does not freely bestow something on someone of His own choosing, then it becomes a reward for the correct action.
That is a business transaction.
To me, you are looking at the gift of eternal life as anything other than what it really is... a love transaction.
Grace versus works, or grace versus Law keeping.
Grace is giving, while works is earning.
The hand that reaches out to take it, is earning it.
The hand that has it placed into it, is receiving it.
But it's still mine, because my Dad gave it to me.
Do you see the difference?
The giving is what made it mine...not the receiving.
It is when you have to make the effort to reach out and grab it.
There is no such thing in all of God's word as, "accepting Christ".
But there is such a thing as being made "accepted in the beloved" ( Ephesians 1:6 ).
With that, I will bow out of this thread.
Thank you for at least reading my replies and taking the time to answer them.
Good evening to you, sir.
Last edited:
Rockson
Active Member
But you still reject the idea that someone can REJECT it and not accept it as theirs. Yes the intent of the Father was for it actually to be theirs but the actual realization of it being theirs only takes place when it's received. Don't believe it? Ask a man who bought a diamond ring for a woman for marriage that she didn't receive. NEVER EVER hers until she receives it. There's many many things in life that way. In labor contracts one may have procured things that belong to them contractually but if they don't take a certain action whatever benefit will NEVER be theirs. We see this ever day in the world we live in. So sorry Dave your analogy falls flat. It still can mean that it's not yours until action is taken.
So sinners will be left with the consciousness in hell that salvation was actually provided for them and they refused to receive it. And yes, in this you're right God isn't going to change history and undo what he'd done. Why should he? Many people did receive. It didn't take 4 billion individual efforts to provide redemption for the world. Only one. The actions Christ took covered it all.
Not the actual receiving of salvation is not. So Dave I'll quote your similar rhetoric back to yourself what you said to another poster....I hope I've helped you in your difficulty in understanding how salvation is realized and received. Yes does sound rather condescending David but they're basically your words.
It wasn't meant to be.
It was meant to be objective and hopefully, helpful.
I'll keep trying to hone my writing skills so as not to come off as seeming offensive.
Sure they are...every day.
For example:
Rain falls from the sky onto a farmer's field...it's a gift from God ( Matthew 5:45 ).
The farmer just sits there while it happens.
What's more is, he had absolutely no control over whether the rain that he needed, actually fell from the sky.
Freely given, and freely received.
Again, you and I see gift giving completely different.
Gifts are never "offered"...they are given and received. ----------------------------------------->That is a love transaction.
Items that are for sale are never "given", they are offered, and purchased. ----------->That is a business transaction.
If God does not freely bestow something on someone of His own choosing, then it becomes a reward for the correct action.
That is a business transaction.
To me, you are looking at the gift of eternal life as anything other than what it really is... a love transaction.
Grace versus works, or grace versus Law keeping.
Grace is giving, while works is earning.
But it's still mine, because my Dad gave it to me.
Do you see the difference?
The giving is what made it mine...not the receiving.
It is when you have to make the effort to reach out and grab it.
With that, I will bow out of this thread.
Thank you for at least reading my replies and taking the time to answer them.
Good evening to you, sir.
I don't mean to be rude I just don't know how else to say it. You appear to be reaching for an explanation when you have none. Your answers are rather silly.
OF COURSE! And why not, if he wanted to be saved? Like Apollos, he'd not heard of Jesus before, but he realized he wasn't "right with God".
And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. Acts 7:58
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: Acts 9:1,2,3
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1 Tim 1:13
And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. Acts 9:9 , Was Saul, in unbelief, just as spiritual blind as he was physical blind?
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.Acts 9:19-14
Did Paul just all of a sudden, from within his own heart and his own free will, become a believer? He was still blind.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: - Whose free will is in operation here? The man who is still blind?
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. Acts 9:17-20
What removed his physical and spiritual blindness? His, free will, belief? What moved him from unbelief unto belief?
Why did he become a believer?
His free will?
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: Acts 9:1,2,3
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1 Tim 1:13
And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. Acts 9:9 , Was Saul, in unbelief, just as spiritual blind as he was physical blind?
And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.Acts 9:19-14
Did Paul just all of a sudden, from within his own heart and his own free will, become a believer? He was still blind.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: - Whose free will is in operation here? The man who is still blind?
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God. Acts 9:17-20
What removed his physical and spiritual blindness? His, free will, belief? What moved him from unbelief unto belief?
Why did he become a believer?
His free will?
MMRRPP ! WRONG !
No, he DIDN'T ! He didn't know WHAT to believe, or he wouldn'ta asked. And, he asked, "What must I DO...", NOT "What must I BELIEVE..." For all he knew, one had to do a physical act of some kind to be saved. Remember, people asked JESUS the same thing.
Yes, Paul had the ability to reject the whole vision as having been from some other source than Jesus. However, he had empirical proof of a tiny taste of Jesus' power, and so believed what he'd seen & heard in the vision. He had been "religious" before, believing he was serving God by arresting "heretics" who were teaching another way to worship God besides the "Mosaic" law, & that Jesus had been some rebel rabbi who'd led people away from God. So, when he saw Jesus was supernatural and real, he believed completely, and was given more & more knowledge of Jesus as time passed. He was one of God's pre-chosen special servants.
And think back to the story of Moses. When God spoke to him from the burning bush, Moe didn't wanna become the leader of the Israelis, but God had pre-chosen him for that great task. But it took God telling Moe in effect, "Do what I said, or else..." that prompted him to choose to obey God's instructions.
Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, (To believe on me?) to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake Acts 9:15,16
The free will of God or Saul?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
He believed but needed instruction. He would not have asked if he didn't believe.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The gospel is foolishness to the unsaved. It was not foolishness to the jailer.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Do you need to choose to believe you are sitting at your computer when you post? Those who experience the New Birth know Christ is real and believe accordingly.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I showed you my interpretation. Now show me yours......
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