Robert Snow
New Member
What happened to Iconoclast? Isn't he going to explain how:
fits in with his previous posting?
fits in with his previous posting?
-
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How Long Does it Take You to Backslide?
- Thread starter preacher4truth
- Start date
I have to disagree with you here my brother.
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1Co 3:3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
These believers at Corinth were in fact carnal, or fleshly, yet they were in Christ.
Now, we can say they were In Christ, but weren't behaving Christ-like, or; Christian.
I agree there can be no backslidden Christian only if we use this word as one who has apostatized from the faith.
I would have been more clear in the OP having seen that many are, and rightly so, using the word in its true Biblical sense. But again, using this in the sense wherein we are not as close to the Lord because of whatever.
If yall don't play along on my terms "Ima take my marbles and go home!"
P4T,
It is fine to disagree. I base my statements on teaching I have received concerning this passage and the words used.
I think you will see that we agree here more than we disagree when it is explained..
These verses in 1cor3 are speaking of believers yes....maybe young in the faith...babes..etc...the gospel was new to them.
They are described as CARNAL.....in that in this one sin...choosing among the various ministers of the word....they were dividing Christ and His message..
Ie, I am of Paul, I am of Peter, I am of Apollos, I am of Calvin, I am of Arminius....:laugh:
They were as you say...In Christ...yes,,,,,but their conduct was like the unsaved....Like men.....like the natural man....In this one sin only. Paul is saying you in being divided this way..are behaving AS if unsaved....and basically he is calling them to repent!
This does not mean that everyday of their lives they were living carnal unsaved lives...as people are being told today.....that somehow there is a spiritual christian...who obeys the Lord...then there is a carnal christian who does not obey!
Brother.....we all sin and our best efforts are not what they should be....but the idea that we can go on and grieve the holy Spirit day,after day,after day,
without being chastened mightly of God is not really found in scripture.
i will post a link that i have posted before where the pastor shows the words used teach this exact thing:thumbsup:
give it a listen and i bet you will see where we agree..and where we have viewed it differently.
http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/wd_index.htm
scroll down to the carnal christian heresy....
also these two by pastor martin..on the same site
http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/am_carnal.htm
keep this site there are many great messages on here. let me know what you think after listening
The bigger issue is this....with the so called carnal christian idea....or the idea of a christian who backslides for 20 years then "re-dedicates himself'
We do not want to give any assurance to someone who is in this condition.
If they are a christian....who has declined or decayed....we want to seek to correct and restore them to a healthy walk....we do not want to shoot them!
if they are a false professor...we do not want to offer comfort that God has not offered to a hypocrite....the hope of the hypocrite will perish.
we do not always know which of these two people we are speaking with...so we want to be careful not to mis-speak...like an OT.false prophet who said peace peace when there is no peace....
preacher4truth
Active Member
I have to disagree with you here my brother.
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1Co 3:3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
These believers at Corinth were in fact carnal, or fleshly, yet they were in Christ.
Now, we can say they were In Christ, but weren't behaving Christ-like, or; Christian.
I agree there can be no backslidden Christian only if we use this word as one who has apostatized from the faith.
I would have been more clear in the OP having seen that many are, and rightly so, using the word in its true Biblical sense. But again, using this in the sense wherein we are not as close to the Lord because of whatever.
If yall don't play along on my terms "Ima take my marbles and go home!"
P4T,
It is fine to disagree. I base my statements on teaching I have received concerning this passage and the words used.
I think you will see that we agree here more than we disagree when it is explained..
These verses in 1cor3 are speaking of believers yes....maybe young in the faith...babes..etc...the gospel was new to them.
They are described as CARNAL.....in that in this one sin...choosing among the various ministers of the word....they were dividing Christ and His message..
Ie, I am of Paul, I am of Peter, I am of Apollos, I am of Calvin, I am of Arminius....:laugh:
They were as you say...In Christ...yes,,,,,but their conduct was like the unsaved....Like men.....like the natural man....In this one sin only. Paul is saying you in being divided this way..are behaving AS if unsaved....and basically he is calling them to repent!
This does not mean that everyday of their lives they were living carnal unsaved lives...as people are being told today.....that somehow there is a spiritual christian...who obeys the Lord...then there is a carnal christian who does not obey!
Brother.....we all sin and our best efforts are not what they should be....but the idea that we can go on and grieve the holy Spirit day,after day,after day,
without being chastened mightly of God is not really found in scripture.
i will post a link that i have posted before where the pastor shows the words used teach this exact thing:thumbsup:
give it a listen and i bet you will see where we agree..and where we have viewed it differently.
http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/wd_index.htm
scroll down to the carnal christian heresy....
also these two by pastor martin..on the same site
http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/am_carnal.htm
keep this site there are many great messages on here. let me know what you think after listening
The bigger issue is this....with the so called carnal christian idea....or the idea of a christian who backslides for 20 years then "re-dedicates himself'
We do not want to give any assurance to someone who is in this condition.
If they are a christian....who has declined or decayed....we want to seek to correct and restore them to a healthy walk....we do not want to shoot them!
if they are a false professor...we do not want to offer comfort that God has not offered to a hypocrite....the hope of the hypocrite will perish.
we do not always know which of these two people we are speaking with...so we want to be careful not to mis-speak...like an OT.false prophet who said peace peace when there is no peace....
We both then are in agreement as you've elaborated. :thumbsup:
Hello Robert,
What happened was I had to go back to work,lol driving from nebraska to indiana...on my way to CT.:thumbsup:
I just responded to P4T in post 162....and gave some explanation for the teaching expressed.
basically.....there was the sin of sectarianism going on[among other sins]
but in chap 3 paul is calling them on the carpet .for this sin, and explains using the same word for the unsaved or natural man in chap 2 to describe
these believers......in doing this specific sin.....they were behaving as men, as mere men, or unsaved men.....in this sin they were carnal
he is not telling them..thats ok ...just continue on in sin as a carnal christian,and you might lose a few toys in heaven.
He is disturbed and rebukes them for this un christlike behaviour...he is seeking to get them going in the correct direction...
The Apostle paul had not read the footnotes in the scofield bible ...so he did not know that their are christians who can live constantly denying the sanctifying work of the Spirit.
Robert....forget the labels for a minute....[calvinism bad, calvinism no good]
if there is someone in your local fellowship...who had not eaten food for weeks,was weak and sickly.....you would not look away and say..I guess they do not like to eat food, or maybe they cannot afford food..that is their problem.
No...you would come along side them..find out what is wrong with them and see if God might use you to help them or restore them to proper health:thumbsup:
That should be the concern in our fellowships...there are 30 or so one another commands....edify one another, love one another,admonish one another,etc.
The same is true spiritually as was true in the example I just gave.
In other words..weak and sickly professed christians need to be placed back on track..if at all possible. Talk with them, listen to them, give scriptural council, pray with them, maybe financial help, food, etc.
The idea that we foster a notion that" christians 'who never go to prayer meeting, bible study, worship service, are just fine is an abberation not found in scripture.
When God uses specific words....we also must be specific in our understanding.
Robert.....do not worry....if I post..I will attempt to give a scriptural answer and not back away from what I post,unless and until some brother offers scriptural correction. We might not always agree ..but I will attempt to be faithful to the word.
Listen to the three sermons I linked in post 162...let me know if they help.
preacher4truth
Active Member
I wouldn't foster that notion. I hope you don't take that from what I've said, as I'm certain you haven't. Just sayin'.
No....I know most here would not. Sometimes how a question is worded can cause a different response.
Some focus only on God's love and forgiveness that when someone posts something about God's righteous judgement, or the wrath to come..they get offended.
This is why Jesus taught to count the cost;
When benjamin was saying I am teaching or posting darkness:laugh: this is exactly what was going on.....remember when he cut and paste from another thread what i said about witnessing.....then he said case closed:laugh:
In his mind he cannot conceive of a time when you might explain to a person that God is not going to save everyone.
the bible is a two edged sword...not just one side;
He thinks because I said that sometimes when speaking with scoffers and mockers, that it might be neccesary to inform them of this..so as to not corrupt the word of God.
In his mind..this is unthinkable evil.....I think he misses all these kinds of verses and is in danger of being like those Jer,described....peace ,peace, when there is no peace.....
To his own master he stands or falls.
preacher4truth
Active Member
We have many today that only want to pronounce love upon the lost, which we should share the love of God. But there also remains judgment in the message, and the Gospel convicts and brings this to light upon mens hearts, causing them to desire salvation from their lost state, and leaving some to remain there.
But there is also the need and mandate to pronounce judgment against those who are perishing, as warning to them, and also to those who hear. Those who call the Cross foolishness, they are perishing. The power of the Gospel only applies to those who are being saved, or to remain in their lost state.
This is the testimony of the Scriptures themselves. Too many in the church stand against this side of the truth that pronounces judgment upon the enemies of the Cross. If Paul would have stood up within a congregation as he did in Acts 10 today, to pronounce what he did, he would be maligned as not being loving, and as being ugly.
There are as you say two edges to the sword. Thanks for that insight there brother.
- Peace
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freeatlast
New Member
I understand what you are trying to say, but the bible simply does not teach that we lose either our relationship or fellowship with the Lord when we sin. In fact He actually steps the fellowship up by the conviction and correction that He brings. It is just a fellowship of another kind much like when our fathers lit up our back side. The fellowship was there, but it was now painful instead of pleasant. The same is with the Lord.
I think that the problem here is that so many for so long have been trying to sell this false teaching of backsliding and lose of fellowship that the church has become dull to scripture. In fact most just stay away from 1John or they twist it so badly that the words mean nothing.
The admonitions of scripture are not to keep us from the practice of sin, but from ever sinning at all. In fact we are not to even be doing things that might be construed as sin much less sin itself. Abstain from all appearance of evil 1Th 5:22. That too is another area that the church has failed miserably. This false claim "we all are sinners so we all sin every day” is simply not found in scripture. There is little wonder why the church has chosen not to seek a walk as the Lord walked, but instead walks in a manner that is filled with daily failures which brings shame on the name of the Lord. I will admit that the teachings we see today are much more palatable, but they are simply not biblical.
Christians cannot backslide as taught today as no Christian can practice sin according to 1John 3.
it is my honest opinion that today the church has done the very thing it was warned and commanded not to do.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
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freeatlast
New Member
[/QUOTE
So if a Christian finds themself falling back into continual sinning, but still love the Lord, prays, seeks council, just has trouble with an area..
Would you tell them to get really saved or what?[/QUOTE]
The problem here is the conflict in your wording. A Christian cannot fall back into continual sin. We have to get the thought of that possibility out of our minds.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Second we cannot claim to love the Lord or know Him if we are not keeping the commandments.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Now let me add this. A Christian CAN be battling a specific sin and all the while confessing it and seeking to not do it again, and every time they do it again they are broken over it. What I would do with this person is pray for them and with them. I would set with them and try and find out what it is in their life that is causing them to fail in this area. There most likely is something they need to get rid of or stay away from, but something. I would want them to be accountable with me and tell me every time they fail and pray with them again until the cycle is broken. If they are real they will do what ever it takes to overcome the sin. If not then they show their true self and i would tell them they need to get saved and show them scripture to support it.
Scripture says it this way.
2Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Now the first question is how do we examine ourselves and scripture tells us how.
2Cor 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
The we are those who are in the faith.
So if a Christian finds themself falling back into continual sinning, but still love the Lord, prays, seeks council, just has trouble with an area..
Would you tell them to get really saved or what?[/QUOTE]
The problem here is the conflict in your wording. A Christian cannot fall back into continual sin. We have to get the thought of that possibility out of our minds.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Second we cannot claim to love the Lord or know Him if we are not keeping the commandments.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Now let me add this. A Christian CAN be battling a specific sin and all the while confessing it and seeking to not do it again, and every time they do it again they are broken over it. What I would do with this person is pray for them and with them. I would set with them and try and find out what it is in their life that is causing them to fail in this area. There most likely is something they need to get rid of or stay away from, but something. I would want them to be accountable with me and tell me every time they fail and pray with them again until the cycle is broken. If they are real they will do what ever it takes to overcome the sin. If not then they show their true self and i would tell them they need to get saved and show them scripture to support it.
Scripture says it this way.
2Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Now the first question is how do we examine ourselves and scripture tells us how.
2Cor 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
The we are those who are in the faith.
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Do you?
What is your struggle against?
Is it against the chemicals of the Period Table, the flesh and blood that are bodies are made of, the flesh or meat of the body that a cannibal would eat. Is that the flesh that you are speaking of? That is not what the Bible speaks of. Chemicals don't sin.
The battle of the flesh is the battle against the mind, the human spirit, that depraved human spirit that we have inherited from Adam. We have a depraved nature. We sin. We are not perfect. We can only try to be dead to sin; try to act, by God's help, to be dead to sin. As the Bible says, "reckon yourselves to be dead to sin." If you were actually dead to sin you would never sin. Period. Those are the facts. The flesh is the old man, the old nature, the sin nature that still dwells in you. The Bible clearly teaches it; for you to deny this is simply to deny Scripture.
"You are carnal; you are yet in your sins." That was said to believers.
That is not true. Sin had reign and rule over many of the Corinthians. They were at church drunk and engaged in gluttony. This wasn't a one time event. They practiced it. For this reason God made some of them weak, some sick, and some he killed (1Cor.11:30). But they were still Christians living a carnal backslidden, sinful life, in which sin was ruling and reigning in their lives. They allowed sin to rule in their lives even though they were believers. Sin was alive, not dead.
Look at what Paul says:
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (Romans 5:20)
--The reasoning here was that if sin abounds grace would abound more.
Therefore we should sin more. For if we sin more then there would be more grace. That makes sense doesn't it? To them it did?
Listen to the answer of Paul:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2)
--There were obviously sinners that allowed sin to rule and reign in their hearts. Paul rebuked them sharply.
Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound, he says.
God forbid!!! he declares.
But that is what these believers were doing--allowing sin to continue and rule in their lives--something you say is impossible.
And, can you live without sinning. I declare that you cannot go one day without sinning. I know you can't.
The very fact that you think you can make a post like this honestly would reveal two things: either you are honestly deceived, which means you have committed the sin of not studying your Bible well enough; or you are posting in pride, a sin God hates. Either way, each of us sin each day out of our own sin nature.
[quote[No child of God has ever backslid or returns to sinning. NONE![/quote]
Are you married? Shall I ask your wife? :laugh:
Perhaps you don't know the real meaning behind this verse and you are the one misinterpreting it.
No, I gave you the truth of Scripture, and plenty of it. You have rejected it.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. It also makes false accusations against hundreds of pastors of whom you have never heard preach. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. When a person gets saved he has a new life. He is a new creature in Christ. Why would he desire to go back to his old life? Your accusation does not make sense. It is an accusation without foundation, and needs to be retracted. It is an insult to the intelligence and the integrity of hundreds of pastors to say that they preach the truth and THAT truth relieves them of giving the difficult truth of Scripture. How absurd is this!!!!! And insulting.
These are unfounded and baseless accusations against those who have a different theology than yours.
A backslidden Christian, as I define one, is a carnal Christian who is not living for the Lord, and there are plenty of them around.
One of the greatest problem that Christianity faces today is:
The moral outsider,
The immoral insider.
For example, there are very few Christians that measure up to the sacrificial life and dedicated work of Mother Theresa. But based on her own words and theology she was not a saved individual.
I would be willing to bet (if I were a gambling man) that my RCC father lives a more righteous and moral life than most of the Baptists on this board. He is not saved. But many Christians can take lessons from the way he lives his life. Perhaps his life has less "sin" (at least outwardly) than yours does. I don't know, because I don't know you. But I do know this we all, including Christians, sin every day. We all have a sin nature that gives us that propensity to sin. It is a truth of Scripture that cannot be denied.
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beameup
Member
I did quote from John 16:3, so to eliminate all confusion I will stick to the Apostle to the Gentiles... Paul.
1 Corinthians offers us teaching from the Holy Spirit concerning "Spiritual" and "Carnal" Christians.
But God hath revealed unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things
that are freely given to us of God. - 1 Cor 2:10,12
Recall the illustration of the "Carnal" Christian. The Carnal Christian is the Christian who is still guided by the Ego
as is the "Natural Man". He is guided by his SELF, he is SELF CENTERED. The Carnal Christian is "fleshly" and
is driven by Pride and Self-Interest. He may "appear" spiritual but is walking blindfolded.
On the other hand, the "Spiritual" Christian is guided by the Holy Spirit; he
is "Walking in the Spirit". He is "Christ-Centered". Jesus is on the "throne"
of his Life. He listens to the Holy Spirit. He LEARNS from the Holy Spirit.
You must make an important differentiation.
1. The Carnal Christian is still a Christian. He will never lose his salvation. He will always be a believer in Christ, even though he may at times be carnal. This is what Paul said about the believers in Corinth in 1Cor.3:1-5.
A believer in Christ is a believer in Christ whether spiritual or carnal. As long as he is obedient to Christ and has yielded himself to the Holy Spirit he will be able to live a spiritual life. If he sins his fellowship with God will be broken and he will have to confess his sin to God and get right with God. In reality this happens to every believer every day.
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psalms 66:18)
freeatlast
New Member
Are you married? Shall I ask your wife? :laugh:
Perhaps you don't know the real meaning behind this verse and you are the one misinterpreting it.
No, I gave you the truth of Scripture, and plenty of it. You have rejected it.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. It also makes false accusations against hundreds of pastors of whom you have never heard preach. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. When a person gets saved he has a new life. He is a new creature in Christ. Why would he desire to go back to his old life? Your accusation does not make sense. It is an accusation without foundation, and needs to be retracted. It is an insult to the intelligence and the integrity of hundreds of pastors to say that they preach the truth and THAT truth relieves them of giving the difficult truth of Scripture. How absurd is this!!!!! And insulting.
These are unfounded and baseless accusations against those who have a different theology than yours.
A backslidden Christian, as I define one, is a carnal Christian who is not living for the Lord, and there are plenty of them around.
One of the greatest problem that Christianity faces today is:
The moral outsider,
The immoral insider.
For example, there are very few Christians that measure up to the sacrificial life and dedicated work of Mother Theresa. But based on her own words and theology she was not a saved individual.
I would be willing to bet (if I were a gambling man) that my RCC father lives a more righteous and moral life than most of the Baptists on this board. He is not saved. But many Christians can take lessons from the way he lives his life. Perhaps his life has less "sin" (at least outwardly) than yours does. I don't know, because I don't know you. But I do know this we all, including Christians, sin every day. We all have a sin nature that gives us that propensity to sin. It is a truth of Scripture that cannot be denied.[/QUOTE]
DHK,
You seem to know more then scripture teaches. The Pope is lost! You know that?! You know that all Christians sin every day! You know that?! How about every hour? Do all Christians sin every hour? How about every minute? Do all Christians sin every minute? How about every second? Do all Christians sin every second? What is there about the 15 or so hours we are awake that we have to sin? If you say no then I would ask you what is there about a day? Is there some clock's alarm that goes off telling you to get your sin in for the day? If you say they sin every second then explain 1John 3 and every other passage telling us not to sin. It is not when we sin but IF we sin we confess. Why bother striving if we have an old nature compelling us to sin so much and we all sin every day?
I have seen several times when you seem to think it is appropriate to add to or change scripture. For instance in this post you said in quotes;
"You are carnal; you are yet in your sins" However the bible never says that. I have no doubt that you have your congregation fooled, as does many preachers today, with that kind of slide of hand tactics with scripture but I am not one of them.
No place does scripture ever tell a believer that they are still in their sins. If we are still in our sins then Christ's sacrifice did not work and we are all most to be pitied.
As to our flesh being the sin nature there is no scripture that teaches that. The same word for flesh used for man is used for Christ. Flesh is used for anything from the physical body to understanding and spirit. However if you want to call the flesh the sin nature lets look at it in Romans 7:5 it reads;
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Notice the WERE in the flesh. We are no longer in the flesh once we are saved. We do not have two natures. We have one new nature.
Let's look at Romans 8:1
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
You claim a sin nature in the believer and it is the flesh but this passage says we who are in Christ do not walk after the flesh as those who do are condemned. No Christian is condemned so the flesh has to point to an old nature that only an unbeliever has in that context.
verse 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Same thing. We who belong to Christ do not walk after the flesh.
verse 5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit
Again a confirmation we do not follow the flesh but the lost do. The reason is we do not have a sin nature. We have the flesh (body) to deal with but not a sin nature.
Verse 9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Again if you want the term flesh to mean sin nature then we do not have one. We are in the Spirit, not the flesh because of we are in the flesh we are not His.
verse 12,13. This is an interesting passage;
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Notice again those who live according to the flesh will die (eternal torment)
Paul is using a comparison between the saved and the lost. The lost have the nature they were born with and the saved have the Spirit of life. We do not have two natures. We battle the flesh or body what ever you want to call it, but not the nature as the nature has been replaced, it is dead.
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freeatlast
New Member
Psalms 66:18 is speaking about getting saved, not about a saved person having sin in their heart. Fellowship cannot be broken in the believers life. When we sin fellowship increases. Just like when our earthly fathers lit up our behinds our fellowship increases with them so it does with God if we sin as a believer. It is just different and no every believer does not sin every day. Prove your statement with scriptuture that they do. The reason that is taught is because those who teach it do have sin every day and they cannot stand the light of those who do not.
We sin daily. That is why daily we need to go to the Lord and confess what sins we have committed in order to have our fellowship restored. John did not write in vain:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
--He writes this for a purpose, the very purpose he gives in verses 8 and 10--that no man is sinless--that all believers sin and must daily confess their sins.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: (1 John 1:6)
--The emphasis is on fellowship with God. If the believer allows his sin nature to lead him in darkness he lies and does not the truth and his fellowship with God is broken. The answer is in vs. 9--Confess your sin.
No you haven't. Stop with the false accusation. Quote me if you have seen such or don't make such accusations.
The Bible does say that. However, I quote from memory and often do not get exactly every word right. But at least I refer to Scripture and not just one's philosophy and opinion. You ought to be ashamed.
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:1)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Corinthians 3:3)
3 Times Paul says you are carnal
He also says: "For whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions." That speaks of them being in sin.
I am sorry that you are unable to understand Biblical exposition.
I am sorry that if I don't quote the KJV word for word, and that you consider that the unpardonable sin. But you will have to live with it. At least I use the Bible. The trouble is: You don't even respond with the Bible.
When you can't respond with the Word of God you respond with offensive insults. What is it with you?? Like I said in a previous post, your comments insulted every pastor that preaches the Word of God faithfully, and you simply offer opinion and nothing of the word of God.
Christ died for all of our sins--past, present, and future. He did not just die for our past sins. He died for the sins that we still commit. Your teaching is unorthodox, borderline heresy. It teaches that Christ did not atone for all our sins. If you sin, how do you know that sin is covered by the blood of Christ?? Scripture teaches that the believer still sins; that we still have our sin nature: (Romans 7; 1John 1:8-10; 2:1, etc.)
That tells us that context determines the meaning of the word. Only by study can you determine the meaning of the word.
What did I say? Context. The meaning of the word is determined by context. What is Romans 7:5 speaking of? The context is marriage and remarriage, in relation to the law of Moses.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (Romans 7:4-5)
The illustration is that a married woman can only marry again if her husband is dead. That is the law. But the law is dead. Rather we are dead to the law. We are risen with Christ. Here the flesh is allegorical referring back to the law--the law that leads to death.
Notice a couple of things here.
First, the verse, with the omission of [who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit] is that which is found in most translations.
Second, the truth of that verse with that omission is what is the basic truth taught in the KJV.
Third, the clause at the end is not one of condition, but rather of qualification. In other words it does not say, "There is no condemnation...IF you don't walk...", but rather,
"There is no condemnation...WHO walks ...."
In other words the phrase "who walks not after the flesh, but after the spirit" qualifies or describes those who are not condemned. It is not a conditional statement.
Right.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, (Romans 8:1)
--This is the way you find the verse in most translations. I don't quote the last part of the verse to save confusion. There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Right? That is speaking of our salvation, not our walk with God. Our walk with God is condemned in the sense that sin separates us from God, when we sin. Go back and read 1John 1:8-10.
If you don't agree with me, you deceive yourself and call Christ a liar.
Therefore walk after the Spirit, lest the righteousness of the law be not fulfilled in you. It is not speaking of your salvation here, but your walk--walking after the flesh; walking after the Spirit. Which do you choose?
And what do you mind (like)?
Do you like to relax and rest in front of the TV when you get home?
Or do you get right to your Bible and prayer?
The former is the flesh; the latter is the things of the Spirit. Do you always choose the things of the Spirit over the things of the flesh?
You follow the flesh more than you think. You follow your flesh every day. Every time you eat more than your required amount of calories you follow your flesh--that is: that extra chocolate bar, that extra latte you don't need, extra money spent that could have been given to missions that you spent on your selfish you. Your flesh; your carnal self eats you up and you don't even realize it.
Yes, Paul is being dogmatic in his summary here.
The word "IF" means that there is a possibility to live after the flesh. Paul would not have written those words if the possibility didn't exist. There is no comparison between lost and saved. It is between carnal and spiritual; between those that walk after the flesh (carnal Christians) and those that walk after the Spirit. Who are you going to yield your life to? The flesh or the Spirit? We all make those decisions--every day.
Paul said in 1Cor.15:31, "I die daily." Why do you suppose he said that?
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psalms 66:18)
Psalm 66:18 is a Psalm written by David, and is speaking about prayer (as most psalms are prayers). David says that if he regards sin in his heart that God will not hear his prayers. David is a believer. David knows that God will not hear the prayers of a believer who has not confessed his sin. That is the teaching of this verse. It has nothing to do with the unsaved. Psalms was not written by or to the unsaved.
freeatlast
New Member
The 1John 1:8 It has nothing to with Christians sinning daily. The passage is dealing with the lost not the saved. I can see you are not aware of this but John was writing to deal with what are called Gnostics. They held many false beliefs but one was that the flesh was sinful and the spirit was not and one could not effect the other. So they claimed they had no sin as they claimed their spirit was sinless. John says if anyone claims no sin they are a liar. John is not talking about a believer, but false a group that with a false claim.
No Christian can backslide and no Christian has to sin daily. Both are false teaching that many pastors give to cover their own sin.
1john 3 make it clear no one who is born of God practices sin.
freeatlast
New Member
Even if you want to go that route and I am not convinced it is correct when reading the whole song. I can see it going either way. Fellowship does not end with sin as is clear with the conviction of the Spirit. None the less a Christian cannot fall away from the Lord into the practice of sin.
1John 3:9