How Much Authority Does A Church Have?

[HopefulNChrist]

I propose that a distinction be maintained between "a church" and "the Church".

Many churches endorse practices not condoned by scripture, such ordination of women and condoning homosexual marriages

Sometimes that endorsement can be handed down by an authority outside the local assembly; by the Presbytery.

So I propose that scripture can be applied by any one since scripture of the KJV should have final authority when reproving evil.

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Any one, providing they rightly divide the word of truth as led by the Spirit to do. It doesn't mean the reproof will be received. If the church cares about abiding in Him, just as each believer should, they will pray about it asking Him for wisdom if there is iniquity in their church that they are ignoring or has their conscience seared of because the practice or word has always been used without regarding the scripture in how or if it does, reproves such practice or word.

In keeping the faith which is the good fight, He has to help us be better witnesses for Him if our faith is to shine among those in error by our words as well as by our deeds.

I know I need the Lord's help in everyday walk with Him. How much more in church service and at communion when assembled together in fellowship with the Son in worship?

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Baptist DistinctivesGARBC

Biblical Authority

The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself. Whatever the Bible affirms, Baptists accept as true. No human opinion or decree of any church group can override the Bible. Even creeds and confessions of faith, which attempt to articulate the theology of Scripture, do not carry Scripture’s inherent authority.
2 Timothy 3:15–17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Peter 1:20, 21

 

[utilyan]

Which Church? The Catholic Church? is this information reliable or not from this link below?

Did the Catholic Church give us the Bible?

"In the 1600's the Council of Trent was convened to correct Protestant errors. One of their errors was the printing of many heretical and poorly translated bibles. In order to remedy this situation, the Council of Trent isolated one version of the Bible which was completely trustworthy. The Council of Trent upheld the validity of the Vulgate and anathematized anyone who denied the Sacredness and canonicity of the Vulgate’s books in their entirety and in all its parts. The Vulgate was the Bible of choice in the Western world from the 4th century to the 16th century.

The Council of Trent did not deny the validity, sacredness or canonicity of the Orthodox canon. Obviously, because the Catholic Church still hopes for a reunification.' ~~ end of quote from link

I think it would be best to quit saying that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, let alone the KJV one.



Why don't we prove Bible versions to see which version is keeping the truths in His words by making sure no scripture runs contrary or oppose the truth in other scripture in that Bible version?

Like all Bible versions says in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speaks what He hears ONLY and so if Romans 8:26-27 testify otherwise but the KJV does not because not even His groanings can be uttered; hence no sound at all, and the "he" in verse 27 is the Son of God that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 and thus the One as the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit for how the silent intercessions are given to God the Father by... then is that not the Bible version that maintains the truth in His words so believers that err know that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for uttering His own intercessions so they can shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally?

Is not this tongue that comes with no interpretation that modern day tongue speakers has because they believe the lie that they can receive another baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation by that sign of tongues when tongues are not to serve as a sign towards believers at all in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 but was prophesied for God to use other men's lips to speak unto the people?

Didn't Paul warned believers not to heed those who preach another spirit or another Jesus and thus another calling and another gospel to receive in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4?

Did not Paul prophesied that seducing spirits will mislead believers into falling away from the faith in hypocrisy in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 when the Holy Spirit gas been in them since salvation, but yet they seek to receive Him again as if He is not in them?

Did not the apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit in 1 John 4:1-4 by knowing the real Holy spirit has been in us since salvation as that is the tradition taught of us to hold in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 so that if they experience any spirit coming over them later in life, they will know that was not the Holy Spirit at all? Did not 1 John 4:5-6 confirm the supernatural tongue in the world that is gibberish nonsense; vain & profane babbling as Isaiah 8:19 confirms this tongue existing in the occult before Pentecost?

And yet because of the error in modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 in thinking the Holy Spirit gives His own intercession "Himself" is why they all doubt His words in John 16:13 as if He did not really meant that, even though the KJV maintains that truth in His words.

So how important is the task of proving Bible versions in these latter days where faith is hard to find? I reckon only the Lord can convince you of that necessity of relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil by.

The attempt at being less catholic as possible is too little too late,

Why do you use a KING JAMES authorized bible not a JESUS CHRIST authorized bible?

The King James is an ANGLICAN BIBLE.

Why don't you get off your seat, get Indiana Jones to get you the original manuscripts and compile the bible yourself?

You are already submitting to another authority by not having anyone in your own church verify that scripture is authentic.

You depend on a scholar, librarian, scientist, teacher ect. to even present the very inkling of considerations.


If I hand you a bible in Chinese, that is all you need? you can take it from there?

There is the language, the ancient language, the idioms and figures of speech.

Brother I can literally quote:

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

And believe me there is someone out there who concludes the exact backwards:

24You see that a man is justified by FAITH ALONE and not by WORKS.


The idea scripture is the ONLY authority is a joke, YOU don't even believe that. You just haven't thought it through.


An actual authority and guidance is necessary.


Im surprised these self proclaimed monergist or yourself don't say anything to the effect that well the holy spirit is my authority who explains the meanings of all these things. The lack there of hints to me a person's sincerity.

Scripture only is not the only authority, never has been and never will be.

The authority is the CHURCH by which without you would never identify scripture at all.

Ask your bible publisher how does know his gospel of Luke is completely accurate......

He's going to tell you, Of course its accurate!! look over here in this CATHOLIC VATICAN library.........see i got all the words right. How can that possibly fly with you?

Aim for the source. You can't pick up a KING JAMES say OH i did it all by myself and in the same breath you would accuse the Anglicans for being a bunch of heretics.
.

 

[robycop3]

All you have to do is quote the scripture that supports your so very biblical teaching.

Oh thats right....its not in there.


Christian authority is those who can identify scripture

Easy. The CHURCH are the folks who say what is scripture. Else sure enough you'd be walking around with a muslim quran swearing up and down allah is god and mo is your prophet .

You see the mormons with book of mormon? Ask them what page said the book of mormon is on?


Genesis doesn't say well there is four Gospels.


Prove to me that MARK wrote MARK. Give me scriptural evidence of who is Mark.

YOU got NOTHING.


You are upset with me because you can't find a bible verse to support your FAKE RULE that would demand a bible verse for everything else.



Don't you wish there was a bible verse that says "hear yeeee hear yeeee and read yeeee the bible is the only authoriteeee"?


Folks will foam at the mouth like attack dogs when someone presents a teaching or rule that has no scriptural backing.

But when its their own fake made up trash........... they get angry with us.

Still waiting for your bible verse, brother.

Still waiting for your OTHER AUTHORITY on earth besides Scripture.

many Scriptural truths are IMPLIED, such as the doctrine of the HOLY TRINITY. while that phrase does not appear in Scripture, it's implied, as Scripture calls Father, Son, & Holy Spirit each God in various places.

Same for the authority of Scripture. We see in 2 Kings 22 that King Josiah, when the long-unused scrolls of the law of God were read to him, tore his robes & humbled himself before God for having not obeyed them, as did most of the other jews as they heard the law. they didn't question its authority!

Same for Jesus, answering Satan with "It is WRITTEN..." He did not exercise His own authority as He coulda done!

His often quoting OT Scriptures while teaching shows even Jesus recognized its authority. And WE have the added authority of the New Testament.

Still waiting for YOUR earthly authority other than Scripture!

 

[Adonia]

Again, PLEASE SHOW US ANY REAL CHRISTIAN EARTHLY AUTHORITY besides Scripture!

Let's see, there is the Bishop of Rome who is the earthly head of the Latin Church. I believe our Eastern Orthodox Church brothers have their leading Bishop, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople and both have "real Christian authority" and have validly ordained Bishops with a direct lineage to the Apostles - their successors if you will. Only men wield authority, the Scriptures are merely authoritative.

 

[Adonia]

You don't seem to have a problem when orthodox Christianity said too many things beyond what was written of His words.

I don't have a problem because orthodox Christianity has the mandate from Jesus Christ.

That is the same thing as saying you are a disciple of orthodox Christianity rather than being a disciple of Jesus Christ.

I am a disciple of Jesus Christ who believes that that orthodox teachings are the correct teachings that Jesus wanted his Church here on earth to proclaim. The sacramental way of Christianity makes great sense to me.

then the Church would be pointing you to go to Him for life and to follow Him by His words alone.

The Church does exactly that, it proclaims his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins. As for his words, we interpret them one way and you another, so whose interpretation is correct? I'll take the Universal Church's interpretation over yours any day of the week.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

The attempt at being less catholic as possible is too little too late,

Why do you use a KING JAMES authorized bible not a JESUS CHRIST authorized bible?

The King James is an ANGLICAN BIBLE..

Jesus Christ at that throne of grace has confirmed to me through the Holy Spirit in me that the KJV is the one to rely on because most modern Bibles have changed the message that directly or indirectly supports false teachings, false spirits, & apostasies.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

Any Bible that declines from the testimonies of the Son and changed any part of scripture that runs against the truth in that same modern Bible in scripture as found in all Bible versions, which means it is a lie, from what the KJV has it in still keeping the truth as aligned with the rest of scripture, then that should be proof of why you should rely on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

But only Jesus can help you see the plainness of the truth in His words to see which Bible version does not love Him to keep His words.

John 16:13 in ALL Bible versions testifies that the Holy Spirit can only speak what He hears; He cannot use God's gift of tongues which is for speaking unto the people, and turn it around for His own use for prayer as many modern Bibles err in Romans 8:26-27. It is because of that error in Romans 8:26-27 in almost ALL modern Bibles is why modern day tongue speaker fail to see the significant reproof of John 16:13 in that modern Bible they are using as proving the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for uttering His intercessions when the KJV has even His groanings cannot be uttered.

Now if you cannot see that truth still.. then you better ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing why you should only rely on the KJV.

 

[Adonia]

But the church's authority is limited when scripture of the N.T. can reprove any decision that church has made.

Jesus sad: "WHATSOEVER you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven.…..". He did not say this was to be limited by what was written. In fact, as the NT was being written, new ground was being broken all the time, so how could this be? Again, please tell in the NT where Jesus said to just write a book and let succeeding generations of Christians figure it all out by themselves.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I don't have a problem because orthodox Christianity has the mandate from Jesus Christ.

Then get your mandate from Jesus Christ rather than what the Church states since it is not so plainly taught as such in the KJV.

I am a disciple of Jesus Christ who believes that that orthodox teachings are the correct teachings that Jesus wanted his Church here on earth to proclaim. The sacramental way of Christianity makes great sense to me.

Not when the Catholic Church says there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That is pretty much the Catholic Church pointing to herself to come to for life but the gospel has always been pointing to Jesus Christ for life; not to the church of Peter for life. So that makes you a disciple of the Catholic Church in testifying of that Church in seeking the glory of that Church rather than Jesus Christ for life.

The Church does exactly that, it proclaims his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins. As for his words, we interpret them one way and you another, so whose interpretation is correct? I'll take the Universal Church's interpretation over yours any day of the week.

Not when the Catholic Church says there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That IS the Catholic Church pointing to herself to come to for life but the gospel has always been pointing to Jesus Christ for life; not to the church of Peter for life.

Nowhere in any epistle to the church or in the Book of Revelation was the Church of Peter was referred to as the means of salvation. Wake up, in Jesus Christ's name, do wake up.

 

[Adonia]

I think it would be best to quit saying that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, let alone the KJV one.

The Bishop's, the Early Church Fathers of the One Universal Church brought the NT to it's present form. They decided which of the many writings that were circulating in the Christian world at that time were to be included or discarded in a properly constituted Council of the Church - and there wasn't a Baptist or Independent Christian among them. They were "Catholic" to the core and they truly believed in and taught these things called "sacraments".

 

[Adonia]

Then get your mandate from Jesus Christ rather than what the Church states since it is not so plainly taught as such in the KJV.

The KJV? It's seen better days. Good grief, we don't talk like that anymore so why would I want to read one?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Jesus sad: "WHATSOEVER you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven.…..". He did not say this was to be limited by what was written. In fact, as the NT was being written, new ground was being broken all the time, so how could this be? Again, please tell in the NT where Jesus said to just write a book and let succeeding generations of Christians figure it all out by themselves.

Peter was not the only one in the room when Jesus said that. His other disciples were there.

And Jesus also said it again here for any believer to use in regards to prayer when 2 believers agree about anything.

Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So Peter is limited in how he prays with that key when he needs another to agree with him in what they pray for.

This key was not about the authority of what you say is the Church founded by Peter, now was it?

 

[utilyan]

Jesus Christ at that throne of grace has confirmed to me through the Holy Spirit in me that the KJV is the one to rely on because most modern Bibles have changed the message that directly or indirectly supports false teachings, false spirits, & apostasies.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Psalm 119:157 Many are my persecutors and mine enemies; yet do I not decline from thy testimonies. 158 I beheld the transgressors, and was grieved; because they kept not thy word.

Any Bible that declines from the testimonies of the Son and changed any part of scripture that runs against the truth in that same modern Bible in scripture as found in all Bible versions, which means it is a lie, from what the KJV has it in still keeping the truth as aligned with the rest of scripture, then that should be proof of why you should rely on the KJV for the meat of His words in discerning good and evil in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

But only Jesus can help you see the plainness of the truth in His words to see which Bible version does not love Him to keep His words.

John 16:13 in ALL Bible versions testifies that the Holy Spirit can only speak what He hears; He cannot use God's gift of tongues which is for speaking unto the people, and turn it around for His own use for prayer as many modern Bibles err in Romans 8:26-27. It is because of that error in Romans 8:26-27 in almost ALL modern Bibles is why modern day tongue speaker fail to see the significant reproof of John 16:13 in that modern Bible they are using as proving the Holy Spirit CANNOT use tongues for uttering His intercessions when the KJV has even His groanings cannot be uttered.

Now if you cannot see that truth still.. then you better ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing why you should only rely on the KJV.

"Jesus Christ at that throne of grace has confirmed to me through the Holy Spirit in me that the KJV is the one to rely on because most modern Bibles have changed the message that directly or indirectly supports false teachings, false spirits, & apostasies."

Well you only got this idea after reading my post. So you lose points for sincerity.

As a mini-POPE / Prophet can't argue with that. God tells you something that/you is the highest authority.

That is why I asked if there is anyone in the world you has better understanding of christian teaching than you?.

Because self-proclaimed prophets come dime a dozen.




How about Examples? We know what Greek bibles the scholars of the KJV used to translate from.

There a good reason 90% of your Greeks are east orthodox Catholics, Just no fooling them to what scripture means.


King James is Anglican bible. If you got the holy spirit, God can have you re-write

"Now if you cannot see that truth still.. then you better ask Jesus Christ for help in seeing why you should only rely on the KJV."

So ask the holy spirit what is wrong with this:

Ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα συναντιλαμβάνεται ταῖς ἀσθενείαις ἡμῶν· τὸ γὰρ τί προσευξώμεθα καθὸ δεῖ οὐκ οἴδαμεν ἀλλ' αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα ὑπερεντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν στεναγμοῖς ἀλαλήτοις·

ὁ δὲ ἐρευνῶν τὰς καρδίας οἶδεν τί τὸ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ὅτι κατὰ θεὸν ἐντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἁγίων

ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖνος τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας ὁδηγήσει ὑμᾶς εἰς πάσαν τὴν ἀληθείαν· οὐ γὰρ λαλήσει ἀφ' ἑαυτοῦ ἀλλ' ὅσα ἂν ἀκούσῃ λαλήσει καὶ τὰ ἐρχόμενα ἀναγγελεῖ ὑμῖν

 

[HopefulNChrist]

"Jesus Christ at that throne of grace has confirmed to me through the Holy Spirit in me that the KJV is the one to rely on because most modern Bibles have changed the message that directly or indirectly supports false teachings, false spirits, & apostasies."

Well you only got this idea after reading my post. So you lose points for sincerity.

Careful, brother. God sees all. You will be sorry for assuming that as fact. I know He knows I am sincere.

As a mini-POPE / Prophet can't argue with that. God tells you something that/you is the highest authority.

God can only prove that to me by showing how a Bible version cannot have a lie in it as no lie can be of the truth.

That is the only way God can prove that to you when scripture goes against scripture in whatever modern Bible you are using and yet the opposing scripture line up in the KJV in regards to Romans 8:26-27 in light of John 16:13.

If you want to continue to ignore those 2 scriptural references in proving by Him which version to rely on, just to be argumentative for the sake of arguing, then we are done here.

That is why I asked if there is anyone in the world you has better understanding of christian teaching than you?.

I was referring to Jesus Christ; not me; only Jesus Christ can prove that to you as He did with me that the KJV is the one to rely on for the meat of His words.

Because self-proclaimed prophets come dime a dozen.

Again... only if I say you have to listen to me. I told you Who proved it for me. You go to Him to prove it to you, unless you do not believe He can do that with you, then no wonder you are opposing yourself regarding other authorities on earth to oppose scripture as the sole authority when you can only oppose those in authority by the scripture.

 

[utilyan]

Careful, brother. God sees all. You will be sorry for assuming that as fact. I know He knows I am sincere.



God can only prove that to me by showing how a Bible version cannot have a lie in it as no lie can be of the truth.

That is the only way God can prove that to you when scripture goes against scripture in whatever modern Bible you are using and yet the opposing scripture line up in the KJV in regards to Romans 8:26-27 in light of John 16:13.

If you want to continue to ignore those 2 scriptural references in proving by Him which version to rely on, just to be argumentative for the sake of arguing, then we are done here.



I was referring to Jesus Christ; not me; only Jesus Christ can prove that to you as He did with me that the KJV is the one to rely on for the meat of His words.



Again... only if I say you have to listen to me. I told you Who proved it for me. You go to Him to prove it to you, unless you do not believe He can do that with you, then no wonder you are opposing yourself regarding other authorities on earth to oppose scripture as the sole authority when you can only oppose those in authority by the scripture.

"Careful, brother. God sees all. You will be sorry for assuming that as fact. I know He knows I am sincere."

Sincere faithful of God are the most calm relax folks in the world.
FEARLESS.
And the last thing they would ever do is have to protect you from God.
Because they don't assume to be more merciful than God.
They hold too much reverence to use God as a mere tool of terror.



I asked multiple times before to give me the name of anyone (other than Jesus) in the world who has a better understanding of Christianity than you? Vanity and Pride dictates it goes from self to God.

Because self proclaimed prophets just like you always come in here try to boss folks around.

Could have saved us a lot of time. All these other prophets a false and you are the only true one, heard that before.


"Again... only if I say you have to listen to me. "
You have. You call all other scripture is false except the scripture GOD told you.

I got another twitchy eye prophet buddy who says God says follow the ESV.
Folks say he should take his meds.

God told you KJV only so you heard our prophet, everybody, we are using the wrong bibles.

 

[utilyan]

So ask the holy spirit what is wrong with this:

Ὡσαύτως δὲ καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα συναντιλαμβάνεται ταῖς ἀσθενείαις ἡμῶν· τὸ γὰρ τί προσευξώμεθα καθὸ δεῖ οὐκ οἴδαμεν ἀλλ' αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα ὑπερεντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν στεναγμοῖς ἀλαλήτοις·

ὁ δὲ ἐρευνῶν τὰς καρδίας οἶδεν τί τὸ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ὅτι κατὰ θεὸν ἐντυγχάνει ὑπὲρ ἁγίων

ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ ἐκεῖνος τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας ὁδηγήσει ὑμᾶς εἰς πάσαν τὴν ἀληθείαν· οὐ γὰρ λαλήσει ἀφ' ἑαυτοῦ ἀλλ' ὅσα ἂν ἀκούσῃ λαλήσει καὶ τὰ ἐρχόμενα ἀναγγελεῖ ὑμῖν

 

[Adonia]

You are already submitting to another authority by not having anyone in your own church verify that scripture is authentic.

That's gotta hurt!

 

[Adonia]

The Bible is the final authority in all matters of belief and practice because the Bible is inspired by God and bears the absolute authority of God Himself.

So, no men who came after the scripture authors were ever inspired by God? None of the Early Church Fathers? No theologian? Ever?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Let's see, there is the Bishop of Rome who is the earthly head of the Latin Church. I believe our Eastern Orthodox Church brothers have their leading Bishop, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople and both have "real Christian authority" and have validly ordained Bishops with a direct lineage to the Apostles - their successors if you will. Only men wield authority, the Scriptures are merely authoritative.

Merely?!?

 

[Adonia]

Merely?!?

Yes. Of course I could have used other words such as purely, simply, wholly, just or solely. Yes, perhaps I should have used the term "solely authoritative". Is that one better?