How Much Authority Does A Church Have?

[utilyan]

Hypocrisy is using the authority of the Bible for dismissing the Bible as unreliable and therefore no authority at all. It is one or the other. And yet you would give that authority to someone else or an organization on earth for the believers to submit to, outside the scripture.

Never have I said the bible is unreliable. You can correct everyone with scripture.

But just because scripture is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. IT never absolutely ever says that Scripture is the only authority.

You are trying to add FAKE FALSE UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINE.



QUOTE ME THE VERSE. Show us that verse that plainly teaches that scripture is the ONLY ONLY AUTHORITY.

Why is that such a TALL ORDER?

hint: BECAUSE ITS FAKE.

 

[Salty]

But the church's authority is limited when scripture of the N.T. can reprove any decision that church has made.

So who or what organization would overrule a local church decision?

 

[utilyan]

HORSE FEATHERS! Show me where Scripture makes Mary a "mediatrix" between God & man, or authorized the office of pope.



Lashing out about this is not necessary, as you CANNOT show me any earthly religious authority besides Scripture.



...Along with a host of NON-SCRIPTURAL, MAN-MADE points.



I likely know that story better than you. What did the Jews do upon the uncovering of those scrolls? They HUMBLED THEMSELVES & prayed to God for forgiveness for not having followed His laws within them. The king & priests considered the written law THEIR authority.



See any authority other than Scripture invoked?????????



Again, WHAT OTHER EARTHLY RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY IS THERE????????????????????????

How did JESUS answer Satan atop the temple roof? he said, to each statement of Satan's..."It is WRITTEN.,..". (Remember, Jesus authority over Scripture, being The Word Himself! He gave most Scripture to man thru His chosen penmen.)

What did Satan do? Did he argue against the authority of Scripture? No; he moved on to another attempt at temptation.

That doesn't make scripture the ONLY AUTHORITY. And it doesn't make YOUR FAKE RULE biblical.

TWO WRONGS don't make a RIGHT.


You can prove me wrong very easily. PUT THE VERSE DOWN (edited out unnecessary addressing individual)


"CANNOT show me any earthly religious authority besides Scripture."

The guys who identify scripture for one. What are the books of the bible again? don't google it. lets see the holy spirit work through you.

There is only two things going for you, Jack and "Feathers". The bible was handed and picked out for you.

 

[Salty]

That doesn't make scripture the ONLY AUTHORITY. And it doesn't make YOUR FAKE RULE biblical.
.

Utilyan - your post has nothing to do with the OP

Please read post # 37 which is on page 2.

 

[utilyan]

Utilyan - your post has nothing to do with the OP

Please read post # 37 which is on page 2.

HI salty good to see you!

Do I have my threads mixed up? I do get confused.

I'm under the impression the claim is ONLY SCRIPTURE = CHURCH AUTHORITY.


Quoting OP

"We are not to think of any Church above that which is written."

"Scripture has sole authority because the Word of God, Jesus Christ, is the Head of the Church; not the Church. It is by the word is how Jesus Christ will sanctify and cleanse; not by extrabiblical traditions created by the authority of a "Church"."


What should the debate sound like?

 

[robycop3]

That doesn't make scripture the ONLY AUTHORITY. And it doesn't make YOUR FAKE RULE biblical.

TWO WRONGS don't make a RIGHT.


You can prove me wrong very easily. PUT THE VERSE DOWN (edited out unnecessary addressing individual)


"CANNOT show me any earthly religious authority besides Scripture."

The guys who identify scripture for one. What are the books of the bible again? don't google it. lets see the holy spirit work through you.

There is only two things going for you, Jack and "Feathers". The bible was handed and picked out for you.

OK, Sir, simply SHOW US ANOTHER ACTUAL CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY, besides Scripture, here on earth!

 

[robycop3]

Thank you, Salty.

I can only hope @robycop3 will continue the discussion there.

I did!

 

[robycop3]

That doesn't make scripture the ONLY AUTHORITY. And it doesn't make YOUR FAKE RULE biblical.

TWO WRONGS don't make a RIGHT.


You can prove me wrong very easily. PUT THE VERSE DOWN (edited out unnecessary addressing individual)


"CANNOT show me any earthly religious authority besides Scripture."

The guys who identify scripture for one. What are the books of the bible again? don't google it. lets see the holy spirit work through you.

There is only two things going for you, Jack and "Feathers". The bible was handed and picked out for you.

So GOD didn't pick out, from the huge volume of old Jewish writings, what He wanted to be counted as His word? You say some MEN simply guessed what should be Scripture?

And why did JESUS, who had (and has) full authority to change, modify, or add to Scripture, tell Satan, "It is WRITTEN..."? Why did He not just say, "You know I am God, and you MUST obey Me whether you want to or not, so go away now."? No, Jesus didn't tell Satan one thing not found in then-existing Scripture.

 

[robycop3]

Again, PLEASE SHOW US ANY REAL CHRISTIAN EARTHLY AUTHORITY besides Scripture!

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Never have I said the bible is unreliable. You can correct everyone with scripture.

Not what you said in post #27 from your argument posted below in quotes.

utilyan's quote "Sure the guys who can picked the out bible.

I put you in front of different versions, fakes, forgeries, extra gospels ect. Scripture is not going to tell you which is right. Someone did it for you. For example if you use a King James. King James is your authority. Its called the King Jame Authorized Bible.

When you got started in Christianity you didn't walk up to 1000s of gospels fakes, forgeries, and say "okay im going to take these 4 right here"

No-no-no. Someone took you by the hand put you on the table and placed the books nicely organized for you.

Can you name the 66 books off the top of your head? Without a google? For plenty of folks google is the authority.

Someone already did all the dirty work for you." end of utilyan's quote

So basically, you are saying we can't trust any Bible version prepared by others and thus handed to us.

But just because scripture is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. IT never absolutely ever says that Scripture is the only authority.

You are trying to add FAKE FALSE UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINE.

QUOTE ME THE VERSE. Show us that verse that plainly teaches that scripture is the ONLY ONLY AUTHORITY.

Why is that such a TALL ORDER?

hint: BECAUSE ITS FAKE.

You do oppose yourself. There is no other authority on earth that can correct those in authority than His words.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

So who or what organization would overrule a local church decision?

His words as kept in scripture. That is the only way any believer can, but of course, it is on God to cause the increase..

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I did!

Thank you for continuing the discussion over there, brother. May God cause the increase in both of these threads in the knowledge of Him.

 

[Salty]

His words as kept in scripture. That is the only way any believer can, but of course, it is on God to cause the increase..

Still havent answered my question

 

[HopefulNChrist]

So who or what organization would overrule a local church decision?

Jesus Christ by His words aka the scripture. Jesus Christ, the Word of God, is the head of every church and every believer.

Still havent answered my question

It is not a question of who or what organization on earth would overrule a local church decision, but how. By His words.

 

[utilyan]

Not what you said in post #27 from your argument posted below in quotes.

utilyan's quote "Sure the guys who can picked the out bible.

I put you in front of different versions, fakes, forgeries, extra gospels ect. Scripture is not going to tell you which is right. Someone did it for you. For example if you use a King James. King James is your authority. Its called the King Jame Authorized Bible.

When you got started in Christianity you didn't walk up to 1000s of gospels fakes, forgeries, and say "okay im going to take these 4 right here"

No-no-no. Someone took you by the hand put you on the table and placed the books nicely organized for you.

Can you name the 66 books off the top of your head? Without a google? For plenty of folks google is the authority.

Someone already did all the dirty work for you." end of utilyan's quote

So basically, you are saying we can't trust any Bible version prepared by others and thus handed to us.



You do oppose yourself. There is no other authority on earth that can correct those in authority than His words.

No ,Thats exactly why the bible is reliable. Because the CHURCH PICK IT OUT.


Lets do this. lets put books and fakes. with wrong verses. and multiple gospels and have you pick out the scriptures.

Can you name all 66 books off the top of your head? Maybe some seminarian could do it.

But you should been able to accomplish this before you ever even read a gospel or heard of Jesus.

Oh no no no..... the authority is the guy who preached it to you.^

 

[utilyan]

OK, Sir, simply SHOW US ANOTHER ACTUAL CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY, besides Scripture, here on earth!

All you have to do is quote the scripture that supports your so very biblical teaching.

Oh thats right....its not in there.


Christian authority is those who can identify scripture

Easy. The CHURCH are the folks who say what is scripture. Else sure enough you'd be walking around with a muslim quran swearing up and down allah is god and mo is your prophet .

You see the mormons with book of mormon? Ask them what page said the book of mormon is on?


Genesis doesn't say well there is four Gospels.


Prove to me that MARK wrote MARK. Give me scriptural evidence of who is Mark.

YOU got NOTHING.


You are upset with me because you can't find a bible verse to support your FAKE RULE that would demand a bible verse for everything else.



Don't you wish there was a bible verse that says "hear yeeee hear yeeee and read yeeee the bible is the only authoriteeee"?


Folks will foam at the mouth like attack dogs when someone presents a teaching or rule that has no scriptural backing.

But when its their own fake made up trash........... they get angry with us.

Still waiting for your bible verse, brother.

 

[Salty]

It is not a question of who or what organization on earth would overrule a local church decision, but how. By His words.

and who in the local church determines how "his words" are to be interpreted?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I propose that a distinction be maintained between "a church" and "the Church".

Many churches endorse practices not condoned by scripture, such ordination of women and condoning homosexual marriages

 

[HopefulNChrist]

No ,Thats exactly why the bible is reliable. Because the CHURCH PICK IT OUT.

Which Church? The Catholic Church? is this information reliable or not from this link below?

Did the Catholic Church give us the Bible?

"In the 1600's the Council of Trent was convened to correct Protestant errors. One of their errors was the printing of many heretical and poorly translated bibles. In order to remedy this situation, the Council of Trent isolated one version of the Bible which was completely trustworthy. The Council of Trent upheld the validity of the Vulgate and anathematized anyone who denied the Sacredness and canonicity of the Vulgate’s books in their entirety and in all its parts. The Vulgate was the Bible of choice in the Western world from the 4th century to the 16th century.

The Council of Trent did not deny the validity, sacredness or canonicity of the Orthodox canon. Obviously, because the Catholic Church still hopes for a reunification.' ~~ end of quote from link

I think it would be best to quit saying that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, let alone the KJV one.

Lets do this. lets put books and fakes. with wrong verses. and multiple gospels and have you pick out the scriptures.

Can you name all 66 books off the top of your head? Maybe some seminarian could do it.

But you should been able to accomplish this before you ever even read a gospel or heard of Jesus.

Oh no no no..... the authority is the guy who preached it to you.^

Why don't we prove Bible versions to see which version is keeping the truths in His words by making sure no scripture runs contrary or oppose the truth in other scripture in that Bible version?

Like all Bible versions says in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speaks what He hears ONLY and so if Romans 8:26-27 testify otherwise but the KJV does not because not even His groanings can be uttered; hence no sound at all, and the "he" in verse 27 is the Son of God that searches our hearts as confirmed in Hebrews 4:12-16 and thus the One as the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit for how the silent intercessions are given to God the Father by... then is that not the Bible version that maintains the truth in His words so believers that err know that the Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for uttering His own intercessions so they can shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally?

Is not this tongue that comes with no interpretation that modern day tongue speakers has because they believe the lie that they can receive another baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation by that sign of tongues when tongues are not to serve as a sign towards believers at all in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 but was prophesied for God to use other men's lips to speak unto the people?

Didn't Paul warned believers not to heed those who preach another spirit or another Jesus and thus another calling and another gospel to receive in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4?

Did not Paul prophesied that seducing spirits will mislead believers into falling away from the faith in hypocrisy in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 when the Holy Spirit gas been in them since salvation, but yet they seek to receive Him again as if He is not in them?

Did not the apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit in 1 John 4:1-4 by knowing the real Holy spirit has been in us since salvation as that is the tradition taught of us to hold in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 so that if they experience any spirit coming over them later in life, they will know that was not the Holy Spirit at all? Did not 1 John 4:5-6 confirm the supernatural tongue in the world that is gibberish nonsense; vain & profane babbling as Isaiah 8:19 confirms this tongue existing in the occult before Pentecost?

And yet because of the error in modern Bibles of Romans 8:26-27 in thinking the Holy Spirit gives His own intercession "Himself" is why they all doubt His words in John 16:13 as if He did not really meant that, even though the KJV maintains that truth in His words.

So how important is the task of proving Bible versions in these latter days where faith is hard to find? I reckon only the Lord can convince you of that necessity of relying only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil by.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

and who in the local church determines how "his words" are to be interpreted?

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Any one, providing they rightly divide the word of truth as led by the Spirit to do. It doesn't mean the reproof will be received. If the church cares about abiding in Him, just as each believer should, they will pray about it asking Him for wisdom if there is iniquity in their church that they are ignoring or has their conscience seared of because the practice or word has always been used without regarding the scripture in how or if it does, reproves such practice or word.

In keeping the faith which is the good fight, He has to help us be better witnesses for Him if our faith is to shine among those in error by our words as well as by our deeds.

I know I need the Lord's help in everyday walk with Him. How much more in church service and at communion when assembled together in fellowship with the Son in worship?

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.