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How Much Authority Does A Church Have?
- Thread starter HopefulNChrist
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Funny, according to my list of synonyms these words are the same. Oh well, whatever keeps you happy. My aim in life is to bring joy to all I converse with LOL!
jeremiah1five
Member
"How Much Authority Does A Church Has?"
That depends.
Over marriage, none.
But neither does a marriage have authority over a church.
Nor should the church take a teaching meant for marriage and apply it to the church.
Example:
1 Timothy 2:9-15 (KJV)
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
That depends.
Over marriage, none.
But neither does a marriage have authority over a church.
Nor should the church take a teaching meant for marriage and apply it to the church.
Example:
1 Timothy 2:9-15 (KJV)
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Depends on how you look at it.
A church can have authority over the wedding it self - for example no drinking, even at the reception - even at another location
No rice to be thrown, is the wedding dress modest enough - the pastor may require a certain amount of counseling sessions.
After the wedding - if the church feels that there are problems in your marriage - they may not allow to serve in certian positions,
such as deacon, Elder, SS teacher, ect
jeremiah1five
Member
Methinks thou are in the wrong church.
There is a natural order (God, Christ, man, woman. This is vertical.)
There is a spiritual order (God, Christ, everyone else in the Body of Christ. After Christ it is horizontal.)
The Body of Christ has no authority in marriage. The only authority in marriage is God, man, and woman, in whom there is Covenant.
In marriage, again it is between God, man and woman. The church has no authority where God has His realm. Stepping on God's toes need to be stopped, at least in churches where man leans on their own understanding and interferes in an area where the church does not belong.
Deacon is a natural service. Elder is a spiritual service. Make distinction.
Counseling is OK BEFORE marriage, but after no, unless sought by the couple or one. Still, whoever seeks the counseling will let the other know.
jeremiah1five
Member
Salty, I don't know how to do multi-quotes so I'll just leave it alone.
Still, no PROOF of any earthly authority of faith/worship higher than SCRIPTURE.
We have MAN-MADE authorities such as bishops, pastors, deacons, & those of the RCC such as popes, cardinals, etc. But again, they're all MAN-MADE.
Remember, Jesus Himself said,"SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN."
We have MAN-MADE authorities such as bishops, pastors, deacons, & those of the RCC such as popes, cardinals, etc. But again, they're all MAN-MADE.
Remember, Jesus Himself said,"SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN."
You are already submitting to another authority by not having anyone in your own church verify that scripture is authentic.
Tell us about when you came to the INFALLIBLE conclusion that you have the correct scriptures, when you actually got off your seat and picked out the scriptures yourself.
Somebody did it for you. That is the authority.
Bind and Loose. The church picked out the canon of scripture. We picked out the 27 new testament books from hundreds of works.
Jesus says he who hears you hears me. Jesus says someone is in error.... what is the solution he gives? Does Jesus say well lets dig in the bible and find out whos right? NOPE. Says take it to the church.
When the Judaisers demanded we follow the Law of Moses of acts 15 the apostles had ZERO scripture support to overide the Mosaic Law.
Scripture did not make that choice. THE CHURCH made the church.
You found that bible verse that teaches scripture is the only authority?
We've only been waiting a whole week now.
Pluggin your ears doesn't make this question go away.
Let me teach that something is biblical, swear its biblical, and then get offended when someone ask for the scripture to show it. HA HA HA!
Thats all we are doing is asking show us the verse where the bible says it.
I would be over joyed to share the scriptures.
But why are you upset you have no bible verse to share your Traditions of Men?
This should never have been a debate. All you had to do is say look see it says it here.
Was that the best verse you guys had? Was to butcher something about being equipped for good works?
We need to go with what scripture SAYS. Not start off with philosophies and fake teachings and then scrambling to find them in scripture.
This should have been open shut easy. IT IS FOR ME, this debate is a piece of cake because your teaching is UNBIBLICAL. That frustration of being against the word of God. Hitting our head on that brick wall doesn't make it go away.
Give us the verse. or step into that light and tell us the truth.
What do you say? The catholics are wrong? Sure they are. That doesn't make your fake rule any TRUER. Give us the verse.
We are just loyal bible believing Christians who don't believe in adding fake traditions of men.
I didn't say "any other authority, period" in matters of faith/worship. When teaching Sunday school, one is under that congregation's pastor. The choir is under a choir director. BUT ALL ARE UNDER SCRIPTURE. Nothing on earth is over Scripture. Let's see ya try to prove otherwise!
We have proved it.
Scripture itself says:
1 timothy 3
15but in case I am delayed, I writeso that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
Canon of scripture.
James 2
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
You don't believe that verse^.
The only way anyone could accept the BACKWARDS is with an AUTHORITY looking over your shoulder.
Bible believers believe what the bible actually says.
Not make up fake rules, swear its biblical and then can't cough up any scripture to back it up.
You claim sola scriptura, Were still waiting for you When you going to give us the verse you swear to God the bible teaches?
You keep dodging with things like "bible is true"
" BUT ALL ARE UNDER SCRIPTURE. Nothing on earth is over Scripture. Let's see ya try to prove otherwise!"
How about your FAKE RULE for one? Show us the verse if that is so true. This shouldn't even be a debate. Just cough up the scripture that supports your traditions of men.
What is the matter? You are not even telling us you can't find a verse or anything. Just give us the verse.
No, you haven't proven squat; toyr above post shows the authority of SCRIPTURE.
Where do people learn they're justified by faith AND worx? SCRIPTURE, of course.
Paul WROTE so Tim & Co would know how to conduct themselves.
Again, SHOW US AN EARTHLY AUTHORITY HIGHER THAN SCRIPTURE in matters of faith/worship. For example,if you're RC, show us the AUTHORITY for the offices of cardinal & pope.
Scripture literally says -->the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
"SHOW US AN EARTHLY AUTHORITY HIGHER THAN SCRIPTURE"
POPE ROBY is a higher authority. Just ask him where is the bible verse for his FAKE RULE.
GIVE US THE VERSE ROBY! You are the best proof of higher authority, POPE.
jeremiah1five
Member
The criteria used in putting together the scrolls that became the New Testament:
1. Written by an apostle or someone CLOSE to an apostle: Luke was with Paul, Mark was with Pete.
2. The epistles were circulated among the churches and read to the churches.
3. Faithful and in agreement to the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets (OT).
4. Powerful to change lives.
1. Written by an apostle or someone CLOSE to an apostle: Luke was with Paul, Mark was with Pete.
2. The epistles were circulated among the churches and read to the churches.
3. Faithful and in agreement to the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets (OT).
4. Powerful to change lives.
jeremiah1five
Member
IF I speak the same thing as God then the authority rests on me.
People will be judged or excused/pardoned based upon the Word I SPEAK.
But you don't know that.
Jake and Elwood are blocking your view.
People will be judged or excused/pardoned based upon the Word I SPEAK.
But you don't know that.
Jake and Elwood are blocking your view.
jeremiah1five
Member
However, any victories I have are the smell of napalm in the morning, and all my crowns I will lay at my King's feet.
jeremiah1five
Member
QUOTE: "Nothing in scripture declares a supremacy of writing over speaking and hearing. Nor that writings are the only source of authority.
You have yet to provide any biblical backing.
In fact I don't think you even believe your own statement, because you believe YOU yourself are the highest authority.
Just name anyone in the entire world who has better understanding of Christianity.
I doubt any name given because PRIDE and VANITY declares There can't possibly be anyone with a better understanding then YOU. After you then God.
Tell me I'm wrong."
RESPONSE: You're wrong.
The Scripture is the Final Authority.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
That is a pretty large magnification.
Whether in writing or in Person, God has magnified His Word ABOVE His Name.
You have yet to provide any biblical backing.
In fact I don't think you even believe your own statement, because you believe YOU yourself are the highest authority.
Just name anyone in the entire world who has better understanding of Christianity.
I doubt any name given because PRIDE and VANITY declares There can't possibly be anyone with a better understanding then YOU. After you then God.
Tell me I'm wrong."
RESPONSE: You're wrong.
The Scripture is the Final Authority.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
That is a pretty large magnification.
Whether in writing or in Person, God has magnified His Word ABOVE His Name.
Then name one living person aside from God who has a better understanding of scripture than you do.
"The Scripture is the Final Authority."
Simply provide the scripture that makes that exact claim, Its not a tall order.
jeremiah1five
Member
No, it's not a tall order. It's a deceptive order .
But I don't think YOU see what it is you're asking.
Psalm 138:2 (KJV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
The shepherd feeds the sheep
rebukes the swine
shoots the wolves.
You keep moving the goal posts.
You could shut me up quite easily by showing us a higher authority on earth than Scripture in all matters of faith/worship. But you CAN'T, so you keep tossing out that same red herring of "Show us the Scripture".
I gave you the best example of Jesus, who has ALL authority on earth, answeing Satan with "It is WRITTEN..." & Satan's having no answer. Even Satan recognized the authority of Scripture.
And, while there's no Scripture actually saying it's the highest earthly authority, it's clearly implied by Jesus often referring to what was already Scripture while He was here. Just as the Holy Trinity is implied in Scripture, so is Scripture's authority.
And you FALSELY say I claimtabee some kind of authority. All I do is point out something OBVIOUS. If there was a higher authority on earth from God than Scripture is, you could easily point it/him out. But insteada doing that, you try to throw it back on me. Well, it WON'T WORK!
You simply CANNOT point out any authority on earth in all matters of faith/worship higher than Scripture!
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