Some Reformed churches are perhaps loaded with people that lack a relationship with Jesus, but these are in the minority.
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I want to see an Arminian Exegete this passage
- Thread starter Calv1
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Some Reformed churches are perhaps loaded with people that lack a relationship with Jesus, but these are in the minority.
And how can one know the difference? How does a person discern between being saved and only having a knowledge of Him? What is the distinction between the two and how can a person know, for sure, he is saved?
How do you know that? Can you see the condition of their hearts?
If they are false converts they have obviously sought God. How do you reconcile that with the Calvinist doctrine that no one seeks God because they are spiritual corpses?
Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
Scripture implies that even they may not realize they lack this relationship. How do you know they are a minority?
I know several Pentecostal Christians who believe that Calvinists are caught up in man-made doctrine. Their theology is, IMHO, horrible. But their gospel is right and it shows.
The distinction between the two, insofar as can be discerned, is in their walk with Christ. How can a person know he is saved? He has to look at the evidences of salvation in his own life. Perhaps he can discern none. This does not mean he is lost, but it does mean he has no assurance of his salvation. Christ is our assurance (not a commitment years gone by, but evidence of Christ in our lives).
So, you admit you don't know so have to refer the question to someone else?
1. Love for God. Like not breaking a vow to God or to a spouse?
2. Repentance from Sin. Like repenting of abandoning a wife and divorcing her without biblical cause?
3. Genuine Humility. Like not accusing everyone who disagrees with you or tries to help you of being one of your detractors?
4. Devotion to God's Glory. By keeping vows and not preaching legalism and the law but preaching the Gospel in the Power of the Spirit and seeing souls saved?
5. Continual Prayer. Like never being on the internet but spending that time in fervent prayer?
6. Selfless Love. Like loving those you constantly condemn as being your detractors?
7. Separation from the World. Like not drinking beverage alcohol? And not lusting after other women while still married in God's eyes?
8. Spiritual Growth. Like becoming more Christ like and less self centered?
9. Obedience. Like keeping your vows to God and to your wife, and loving your wife always?
That really cleared that up.
Now, would you like to take a shot at answering the question for yourself?
There are none who understand. There are none who seek God. Romans 3.
It sounds like you are saying we cannot know. I know I am saved for one reason and one reason only. I believe Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day. That is the Gospel, by which I was saved and in which I stand.
You say that a person might not have assurance of salvation but still be saved, then you say Christ is our assurance. If we have no assurance are you not saying we don't have Christ Who is our assurance?
What evidence of salvation will be in my life, other than my believing the Gospel? And what if I trip and fall over one of those evidences? Do I lose my salvation or is my salvation retroactively undone, even if I previously had that evidence?
When evangelist and you get back to me I will make my definitive statement then back out of the discussion.
LOL! Born in Altadena, spent 35 years in San Diego.
Born in La Mesa... Spent 55 years in San Diego... 10 years in Riverside and now been in Sacramento 4 years... Us native Cal's have to sick together TC!... Brother Glen
It doesn't matter. He doesn't believe that.
Lived just south of La Mesa, in the Casa de Oro neighborhood of north Spring Valley for 30 years. Prior to that in the north county, Oceanside, then Vista, then Escondido.Born in La Mesa... Spent 55 years in San Diego... 10 years in Riverside and now been in Sacramento 4 years... Us native Cal's have to sick together TC!... Brother Glen
Great place to live but I couldn't afford to retire there. So moved to the far south of Texas in 2012. Great place. And daughter, son-in-law, and grandkids live 15 minutes away. Life is good.
Of course I believe it! But it was written about people who lived, when, 3,000 years ago? And were polytheistic pagans.
Written before Christ's ministry and before the establishment of the church. It's a scripture written to a different audience.
Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
No, that is not what I am saying at all.It sounds like you are saying we cannot know. I know I am saved for one reason and one reason only. I believe Christ died on the cross for my sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day. That is the Gospel, by which I was saved and in which I stand.
You say that a person might not have assurance of salvation but still be saved, then you say Christ is our assurance. If we have no assurance are you not saying we don't have Christ Who is our assurance?
What evidence of salvation will be in my life, other than my believing the Gospel? And what if I trip and fall over one of those evidences? Do I lose my salvation or is my salvation retroactively undone, even if I previously had that evidence?
When evangelist and you get back to me I will make my definitive statement then back out of the discussion.
I know that I am saved because I know my Redeemer. Evidence of my salvation is written throughout my life. But if there comes a time when I am not "walking in the Light", then I certainly have no assurance of my salvation.
What I am saying is that a Christian can discern evidence of his salvation. A Christian who is "backslidden" or who is not bearing fruit has no assurance of his salvation. That person cannot look back to a time when he believed and say "See! I believed back then so I'm good".
Scripture gives ONE assurance and that is Christ (not a memory of a time you committed yourself to Christ, but the activity of God in your life). It is a belief that in Jesus Christ, but it is not a benign belief (it is a belief that effects salvation).
Where, brother, do you disagree?
Same path. Different sunglasses.We all follow Christ, we just take different paths in the process... Brother Glen
Lived just south of La Mesa, in the Casa de Oro neighborhood of north Spring Valley for 30 years. Prior to that in the north county, Oceanside, then Vista, then Escondido.
Great place to live but I couldn't afford to retire there. So moved to the far south of Texas in 2012. Great place. And daughter, son-in-law, and grandkids live 15 minutes away. Life is good.
You know TC child psychologist have proven through intensive scientific study, that living that close to your Grandkids, the Grandkids will spoil you rotten!... I guess by now you're a lost cause... Brother Glen
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