Featured If you are not a “Calvinist”….

Your right it doesn't make it true. Only what Christ said is true not what we sometimes think. Simply we cannot think our way in to heaven. Scripture must be followed correctly.
MB

 

God has 'wrought' within one and not the other:

20 for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;
21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`Jn 3 YLT

It's 'regeneration BEFORE faith'.

 

I think most people do not want to you said, you said type of discussion. Hard to give an answer without someone getting feathers ruffled.

 

Correct.
Now the OP was very clear. Right away RM called it a gotcha question.
He did not answer and we know he cannot,so he tries to rework the question.
Others quote verses that do not address the question...but are good verses....you know ...like Job's 3 friends offered some solid ideas that did not apply to Job.
SH....read every response and tell me if you can agree with my neutral observation?

Also some word things so vague that technically the gave an answer,but in such a disingenuous way,that they do not take a stand,they do not intend to, they have no biblical base.
They do not post further as they cannot bear to see their false ideas exposed.
This almost insures they will not learn or grow.

 

This post is off topic.That is not the point of this thread.Your error of Rom5:8 from the other thread is still error over here.Until you read rom5 as a unit you will stay in this error.

 

You are correct. I posted in the wrong thread.

My reply was to this tread in error.

 

Yes
MB

 

The problem with your use of this verse is context. The sheep spoken of here is not all believers throughout history but only those who are in the immediate ministry of Jesus.

In John 17 Jesus prays for those who the Father gave Him. This is a reference to the immediate disciples only.

 

So are you saying that God had to have had a special revelation with all 7000 that did not bow to Baal Rom 11:4? This would indicate to me that man can turn to God without that. Do you disagree? You have taken a special revelation to certain people and have made it the only way that God can draw people to Himself but the bible disagrees with that view Joh 12:32 “...will draw all peoples to Myself”

While the world in general my reject the truths of God that does not mean the all people do, we have a prime example of someone saved with out hearing the gospel message. How do you deal with the criminal on the cross.

Luk 23:42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Christ Jesus had not died, been buried, or risen so no gospel presentation, yet the man was saved. Correct. The man just asked Christ Jesus to remember him when He came into His kingdom. From your view the man was not saved but Christ Jesus said he was.

You want to limit how God can bring someone to a saving faith but since God is sovereign then He can do what He wants. You point to 1Co 1:21 but please note what it does not say in that verse. It does not say

>> it pleased God {that only} through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.<< While you may think that the hearing of the Gospel is the only way that is not what I see in scripture and I do not think we should limit God in this matter.

I trust that I have answered your questions.

 

Actually Jon I was just responding to this comment >>What is that to us?<<

 

If someone has spent much time talking to people about faith/salvation they will appreciate what you have said. Some just do not understand what it is, all the way through to flat out hate of anything to do with God.

Why some believe and others do not is something only they could tell you.