is the Holy Spirit Involved in the "Modern Charasmatic' Movemnent at all?

[awaken]

Actually, I know I have salvation because of the Holy Spirit indwellement that has been joined with my spirit, which crys Abba Father. The faith I have is in the person of Jesus Christ. I know Him, therefore I believe Him, or have faith in Him.

You see, I know I have the Holy Spirit. But I don't see any of these "signs" in my life such as tongues, drinking posion, picking up snakes, etc. Matter of fact, I aint drinking no posion and I surely aint picking up any snakes. Does that mean I have a lack of faith?

I just don't se what I am missing here. Yeah, i'm not speaking in tingues, but do I really need that to do the works I have been doing? I'm not laying hands on anyone and healing them, but I would like to have that gift, but God has not given it to me, not yet anyways.

THe Holy Spirit manifest as He wills not at our will!

Mark 16 is not just about picking up snakes and drinking poison..and the disciples walked with Jesus enough to know what he was talking about. We have to dig deep in the word to find out meanings and it takes awhile. (NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT TELL YOU TO DRINK POISON AND PICK UP SNAKES)

We are told in scriptures that we can recognize Jesus' true disciples by their "fruit." This is described as being obedience to God's commands, acknowledging that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who has come in the flesh, and displaying the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) by loving each other with actions and in truth. These are the things that we are told to look for as evidence that a person has received salvation. The Bible never tells us to look for supernatural manifestations as evidence of anyone's salvation. But if you study out the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...tell me what you see..

Read every scriptures about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:5 tells of the baptism that was to come.
Acts 1:8 tells of the power that we receive with the baptism.
Acts 2 tells explains what happen when they first received.
Act 2:39 tells us that this promise is not just for the apostles or early church..it is for all that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 8 tells of when the Samaritians received the Holy Ghost after they believed and were baptized.
Acts 10 tells of when the Gentiles received.
Acts 19 tells of disciples that believed and baptized.. and later was explained about receiving the Holy Ghost.

 

[steaver]

THe Holy Spirit manifest as He wills not at our will!

Then my asking in faith would have nothing to do with receiving any particular manifestation of the Holy Spirit, correct?

 

[steaver]

But if you study out the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...tell me what you see..

Read every scriptures about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:5 tells of the baptism that was to come.
Acts 1:8 tells of the power that we receive with the baptism.
Acts 2 tells explains what happen when they first received.
Act 2:39 tells us that this promise is not just for the apostles or early church..it is for all that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 8 tells of when the Samaritians received the Holy Ghost after they believed and were baptized.
Acts 10 tells of when the Gentiles received.
Acts 19 tells of disciples that believed and baptized.. and later was explained about receiving the Holy Ghost.

I preach and teach God's Word, many people have benefited from this I'm told. I deflect any compliments to it is God's doing by the power of the Holy Spirit through me by exalting His Word. I'm just a servant. So why are people getting saved and people growing in Christ through my teaching if I have not received this baptism of the Holy Spirit? Or have I received it and just never spoke in tongues?

 

[DHK]

But if you study out the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...tell me what you see..

Read every scriptures about the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:5 tells of the baptism that was to come.
Acts 1:8 tells of the power that we receive with the baptism.
Acts 2 tells explains what happen when they first received.
Act 2:39 tells us that this promise is not just for the apostles or early church..it is for all that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 8 tells of when the Samaritians received the Holy Ghost after they believed and were baptized.
Acts 10 tells of when the Gentiles received.
Acts 19 tells of disciples that believed and baptized.. and later was explained about receiving the Holy Ghost.

Every verse from the Book of Acts (like the cult, Oneness Pentecostals).
I challenge you to find the same teaching outside the Book of Acts.
Don't protest, just do it.

 

[awaken]

I preach and teach God's Word, many people have benefited from this I'm told. I deflect any compliments to it is God's doing by the power of the Holy Spirit through me by exalting His Word. I'm just a servant. So why are people getting saved and people growing in Christ through my teaching if I have not received this baptism of the Holy Spirit? Or have I received it and just never spoke in tongues?

An unsaved person can present the Word of God to someone or teach it. Many times I have heard of teachers even preachers that have been in the ministry for years and realized they were not saved. But many people come to know the Lord because of them.

As far as you receiving it and not knowing it..could be? I can not answer that.
When I was first saved I knew very little about my salvation. Same with the baptism...I knew very little about it. But God is patient and a great teacher!

 

[awaken]

Every verse from the Book of Acts (like the cult, Oneness Pentecostals).
I challenge you to find the same teaching outside the Book of Acts.
Don't protest, just do it.

Your point?? Are you saying throw out the book of Acts?

 

[DHK]

So now you are saying that this man is a better teacher than the Holy Spirit?

I am saying you are preferring to remain in ignorance rather than hearing a scholar who can expound the passage better than you can. You are so biased that you do not listen to the Holy Spirit. You have turned him off. I know that because you follow false doctrine that the Holy Spirit doesn't teach.

 

[DHK]

Your point?? Are you saying throw out the book of Acts?

This is why I said "don't protest." I predicted that exact answer. You have done it before. Just accept the challenge. If you cannot find the same doctrine in any other book, also accept that it is not of God. God does not contradict himself.

 

[awaken]

I am saying you are preferring to remain in ignorance rather than hearing a scholar who can expound the passage better than you can. You are so biased that you do not listen to the Holy Spirit. You have turned him off. I know that because you follow false doctrine that the Holy Spirit doesn't teach.

DHK, I have a peace about where I am and what I believe. I have studied and read many so called scholars concerning the ceasing of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. But God's Word is what I base my doctrine on..not men!

 

[awaken]

This is why I said "don't protest." I predicted that exact answer. You have done it before. Just accept the challenge. If you cannot find the same doctrine in any other book, also accept that it is not of God. God does not contradict himself.

No, he does not! But wrong interpretations do! My response stands!

 

[DHK]

No, he does not! But wrong interpretations do! My response stands!

Your response is ridiculous. You have taken a doctrine entirely out of the Book of Acts and cannot support it with any other book.
The book of Acts is an historical book not a doctrinal book.
It records the acts of the apostles not the doctrine of the apostles.
It tells of the church in transition, not the church in fruition.

If you want to know church doctrine you must go to the epistles, written to churches and pastors of churches where the churches were completed, not to the book of Acts where the church was in transition. Otherwise you are just forming false doctrine for yourself. It cannot be verified by doctrinal books.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

1 Corinthians 12:13 -- "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

This is the baptism by the Holy Spirit which ALL BELIEVERS receive the moment they believe, and by which they are regenerated. It does not come subsequent to conversion and only to a select few who "desire" or "seek" it; this is the Pentecostal/Charismatic error and false Gospel. And neither is it evidenced by tongues or any other spiritual gift. Every believer has been baptized by the Spirit, is a member of Christ, and the evidence of this are the fruits of the Spirit, of which arrogance and an air of spiritual superiority are not among them. Believers are not divided into those who have been baptized by the HS and those who have not. That is a Pentecostal distinction based on grave error.

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 12:13 -- "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

This is the baptism by the Holy Spirit which ALL BELIEVERS receive the moment they believe, and by which they are regenerated. It does not come subsequent to conversion and only to a select few who "desire" or "seek" it; this is the Pentecostal/Charismatic error and false Gospel. And neither is it evidenced by tongues or any other spiritual gift. Every believer has been baptized by the Spirit, is a member of Christ, and the evidence of this are the fruits of the Spirit, of which arrogance and an air of spiritual superiority are not among them. Believers are not divided into those who have been baptized by the HS and those who have not. That is a Pentecostal distinction based on grave error.

Hebrews speaks of doctrine of baptisms, plural!

Most Christian denominations (whether they are "mainline" or "charismatic") believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit is automatically received by a person at the moment of salvation. But is this the same thing as the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit?

 

[awaken]

Every verse from the Book of Acts (like the cult, Oneness Pentecostals).
I challenge you to find the same teaching outside the Book of Acts.
Don't protest, just do it.

THe Baptism in the Holy Spirit was promised in the OT...
John last prophecy was the promise of the baptism (Luke 3:16)
In the OT the Holy Spirit was available to save, but his abiding presence was not yet given. In the OT the Holy Spirit came upon certain people and departed.

Joel promised it in Joel 2:28.
Isaiah promised it in Isa. 32:15; Isa. 43:19;
In the OT both the Savior and the Spirit was promised!

When Jesus died on the cross both water and blood came from him. Blood speaks of the new birth available to every believer, and the water speaks of the Spirit-empowered Word of God that birthed the church.

 

[DHK]

THe Baptism in the Holy Spirit was promised in the OT...
John last prophecy was the promise of the baptism (Luke 3:16)

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
This is what John the Baptist said about Jesus.
First he was being humble about himself.
Second, he was referring to Christ coming in the power of the Holy Spirit, and if any reference to baptism in the Spirit is made specifically it is the one at salvation; nothing subsequent to salvation.
"With fire" refers to judgment and/or suffering. There are some that think it refers to the tongues of fire present at Pentecost but that is unlikely as it would then only be applicable to a very few select people.

In the OT the Holy Spirit was available to save, but his abiding presence was not yet given. In the OT the Holy Spirit came upon certain people and departed.

Salvation in the OT is the same as in the NT.
We are saved by faith.
For example, How was Abraham saved?
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

How was David saved?
Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
--We are all saved the same way--belief in God.

Joel promised it in Joel 2:28.
Isaiah promised it in Isa. 32:15; Isa. 43:19;
In the OT both the Savior and the Spirit was promised!

And so? They were a promise! Fulfilled in a historical event called Pentecost.

When Jesus died on the cross both water and blood came from him. Blood speaks of the new birth available to every believer, and the water speaks of the Spirit-empowered Word of God that birthed the church.

Blood does not speak of the new birth. The blood is evidence or proof of his death. He shed his blood on our behalf. The blood is not the new birth.
Water may symbolize the Word of God, but only in the sense that the Word of God is the gospel by which a person is saved. There is no such thing as "the church." The church that is spoken of in Acts 2 is "The First Baptist Church at Jerusalem," a local assembly. There is no such thing as a universal church or "unassembled assembly." They assembled as the word ekklesia means.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Hebrews speaks of doctrine of baptisms, plural!

Most Christian denominations (whether they are "mainline" or "charismatic") believe that the indwelling Holy Spirit is automatically received by a person at the moment of salvation. But is this the same thing as the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit?

\

In a word, yes.

 

[evangelist-7]

Notice too that Jesus did not do any miracles until the dove ascended upon Him representing the Holy Spirit...

Notice too that the dove (representing the Holy Spirit) ascended UPON Jesus,
which signifies someone receiving the ANOINTING of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

All 7 passages about the Holy Spirit coming UPON are referring to this baptism.

7 or so passages about the Holy Spirit being INSIDE are referring to the born-again state.

This wonderfully-edifying spiritual Truth has been presented here countless times, IMO to no avail.

But, I give it again for our precious newcomers, who may have no previous knowledge of it.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

The usual outward evidence that we have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not that we "feel" anything
but that we are able to begin praying in tongues (but not limited to just this) by the Holy Spirit.
There is overwhelming Scriptural evidence for this in His Word.

And from Post #179 ... Speaking in tongues is the result of receiving the power of the Holy Spirit, it is not the goal.

Just so there is no confusion, unreal expectations, etc. by anyone concerning tongues ...

IMO, most Pentecostals/Charismatics believe that tongues is the evidence/confirmation of receiving this baptism.
I spoke just a few words in tongues during my moment.

However, many do NOT continue with the tongues thereafter.
It is merely 1 of the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12) ... and it is a very powerful gift!
E.G. I have several of these 9, but NOT the gift of tongues.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

(Re: this baptism ...) THe Holy Spirit manifest as He wills not at our will!

This is perhaps a misunderstanding.
JESUS is the Baptizer with the Holy Spirit.
ONLY He gives it, but I'm not positive WHO decides who shall receive it.
IMO, this is Jesus also ... it is His playpen down here, no one else's.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

1 Corinthians 12:13 --
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

This is the baptism by the Holy Spirit which ALL BELIEVERS receive the moment they believe,
and by which they are regenerated.

Your verse above teaches ...
The precious Holy Spirit baptizes one into the church when one becomes born-again.
If you have indeed experienced this, many hearty congratulations indeed!

However, we are talking about a different baptism (please see post #197).
.