My Thoughts on the KJV

[revmwc]

Examples of word from the KJV that would require an 1828 dictionary:

Canker a sore
Clave
Collop
Bdellium a mineral
Buckler
Mail
Sackbut
Euroclydon
Exactorone who exacts pyment
Firkina measurement
Lintel
Glister
Higgaion
Knops
Oblationan offering
Offscouring
Plaitingtwisting normally the hair
Pressfat
Flesh potsa pot where flesh is stored
Sodden Fleshsoften flesh
Quickit is effective
Sith
Unctiondesire
Palmerworm
Chamoisa type of cloth
Strange Slips
Peculiar peopleset apart people
Parbar
Outwent
Nitre
Minisheddeminished
Mallowssoft
Sky is lowering
Latchet
Blains
Daysmanday watchman
Fetch a compass
Let
Rereward
Preventstop
Tabering
Wen

Just to answer a few without a dictionary many of these are still used today such as we prevented them from going. She plaited her hair. We mined the Bdellium. We received the exacted (exactor) right amount. Most of these are very easy to understand if you have a good vocabulary. Maybe that is the problem since the bible isn't allowed in schools the vocabulary words many of us grew up knowing aren't taught anymore.

 

[Mexdeaf]

The word BOOK is a bit of a misunderstanding on this one....I guess booklet would be more like it. I'd call it a tract, but it's bigger in dimensions than a Chick Tract. It's very thin and fits right inside your Bible for those words you don't get when reading the KJV. I've found, in my experience, that it's really not needed all that much but it's nice to have. It's not like a Book of Mormon kind of book, it's a little dictionary is all, no different than grabbing one from the shelf of your library. Nobody is explaining anything or telling you what to believe, just gives the definition of a word and a scripture reference for that word. Period.

THIS is why I don't discuss this anymore because people become so defensive of their particular brand of translation and jump on the "people died to translate" soap box, among others. I do NOT...repeat DO NOT...deny you, or anyone else, the privilege of reading scripture in whatever translation you choose to read. I also DO NOT deny God's ability to use any translation to speak to those who are reading or to use any translation to bring someone to salvation. I, personally, prefer the King James Bible. It's what I grew up with, it's what I am most comfortable reading. I personally do not NEED a dictionary to read it, I understand it better than any of the modern translations. But then, I'm older and set in my ways. I enjoy the rich, beautiful, flowing language of the King James Bible. But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have an expensive Sony Reader that sits in a drawer, unused because I still prefer holding a real book in my hands. So, call me old-fashioned.

I have no problem with you, my sister.

 

[Salty]

I think I am pretty sharp and do okay with KJV era language - then I come across a word like bruit which was in my Bible reading today. I had no idea what a bruit was. I wonder how many other readers do without looking it up?

Roger - "Bruit" is used twice in the OT - I thought that I might know what it means in context - but I did not. In fact, each time it was used, Strong's has a different reference # for it.

I chose #1 because what I would really choose isn't there. My choice would be, "I love the King James but do use other versions during studying and preparation." I never buy into the argument of people that the modern translations are easier to read and understand as the King James is written on a 4th grade English level. Yes, there are a few outdated words, but even my granddaughter can figure out what they mean without a dictionary.

We attended a church up in the mountains of North Carolina while visiting on vacation and the pastor read a verse out of the NIV, then proceeded to use the King James to explain the convoluted way the NIV phrased it. I looked at my husband and we smiled at the silliness of it. Why didn't he just read it out of the KJV?

Diamond
First I want to apologize that I got you granddaughter mixed up with daughter. Sometimes my mind works faster that my typing. Also, I share you loss in not being able to see your granddaughter.

Anyways, the tone of your response is that you appear to be KJO. I enjoy using the KJ - but I do use many others as well. The point of option one was that many believe to the point that you cannot be saved by reading any version except the KJV. Many Non-KJO people have a problem with that an other dictates of KJO.
And there is no way, I accept the thinking that the KJ is on a 4th grade level. At a minium, it is 8-F/College level; and as one posted pointed out, different books do have seperate reading grade levels.

 

[TCGreek]

I respect the legacy of the KJV. But my problem is with KJVO.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I respect the legacy of the KJV. But my problem is with KJVO.

Likewise. But KJVO's see any attempt to correct their as an attack on the KJV itself. However, as has been pointed out so clearly in a recently deceased thread, the worst enemies the KJV has are some KJVO'ers.

 

[DiamondLady]

Roger - "Bruit" is used twice in the OT - I thought that I might know what it means in context - but I did not. In fact, each time it was used, Strong's has a different reference # for it.



Diamond
First I want to apologize that I got you granddaughter mixed up with daughter. Sometimes my mind works faster that my typing. Also, I share you loss in not being able to see your granddaughter. Thank you...my mind often lags behind my fingers and then races ahead. Depends on the day! I miss Josie, but I try to be a good grandmother when we're together and cherish those times with all my heart. One day she won't have the constraints her mother puts on our time together.

Anyways, the tone of your response is that you appear to be KJO. No, just KJV personal preference. As I mentioned above I believe God can use whatever version He chooses to reach someone. I enjoy using the KJ - but I do use many others as well. The point of option one was that many believe to the point that you cannot be saved by reading any version except the KJV. I am certainly not in that group. Many Non-KJO people have a problem with that an other dictates of KJO. I find that non-KJV people are usually fairly intolerant of those of us who prefer reading the KJV and are generally quite agressive in their attacks. It's why I stopped discussing this some time back and swore I'd never do it again. I must have had a brain lapse when I posted on this subject. It's not that I can't hold my own in a debate it's that I get tired of the same old song and dances. It's why I absolutely refuse to participate in the Calv/Arm debates. It's gotten to be a complete and utter waste of time as no one is ever going to change their minds...sort of like this subject. I've decided you either like the KJV or you don't and if you are a modern version warrior you're not going to change and if you are on the KJV side you're not defecting to the other camp just on principle alone. In my library you'll find most modern versions. I use them when studying.

And there is no way, I accept the thinking that the KJ is on a 4th grade level. At a minium, it is 8-F/College level; and as one posted pointed out, different books do have seperate reading grade levels.We did a lengthy study on the subject at our church several years ago. (that's the study I finally threw out when I said I was done discussing this..that's when I find I need what I threw away) Anyway, we looked at the words used in the different versions (not counting those archaic words) and that was the average reading level. It doesn't really matter to me what version someone else uses as long as they read and study their Bible

I've actually found I've enjoyed this discussion for the most part. It's been a thoughtful and thought provoking view into how some others here think.

 

[DiamondLady]

Just to answer a few without a dictionary many of these are still used today such as we prevented them from going. She plaited her hair. We mined the Bdellium. We received the exacted (exactor) right amount. Most of these are very easy to understand if you have a good vocabulary. Maybe that is the problem since the bible isn't allowed in schools the vocabulary words many of us grew up knowing aren't taught anymore.

here's a few more
Canker a sore
Clave ask the musician...it's a percussion instrument, they're thick wooden sticks with a slit in them. They're used in Caribbean music a lot
Collop
Bdellium a mineral
Buckler a shield
Mail
Sackbut Ask a musician...a sackbut is trombone from the medieval days
Euroclydon cyclone type storm
Exactorone who exacts pyment
Firkina measurement
Lintel door post
Glister
Higgaion
Knops
Oblationan offering
Offscouring
Plaitingtwisting normally the hair
Pressfat
Flesh potsa pot where flesh is stored
Sodden Fleshsoften flesh
Quickit is effective
Sith
Unctiondesire
Palmerworm locust
Chamoisa type of cloth
Strange Slips
Peculiar peopleset apart people
Parbar
Outwent
Nitre
Minisheddeminished
Mallowssoft
Sky is lowering
Latchet shoe fastening like a buckle
Blains
Daysmanday watchman
Fetch a compass
Let
Rereward rear guard
Preventstop
Tabering
Wen

 

[annsni]

Luke 10:1
KJV 1 After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

NIV 1 1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go

I have also seen the NAS say 72 also.

Since the number 70 represents divine order then it would make since that Jesus sent out 70 not 72. I haven't compared it all but as I was teaching the significance of numbers in scripture and some folks had the NIV and NAS saying seventy two we found this. The original is always from an interlinear greek to english to me and it says seventy (hebdomEkonta).

HUH? Why did Jesus have 12 apostles? Why did He have 153 fish caught by the fishermen/apostles? None of those are divisible by 7 - I don't think that we can decide the right number just based on a theory of numerology. Heck, why didn't Jesus minister on earth for 7 years? Or be crucified in His 35th year? Makes no sense!

 

[revmwc]

HUH? Why did Jesus have 12 apostles? Why did He have 153 fish caught by the fishermen/apostles? None of those are divisible by 7 - I don't think that we can decide the right number just based on a theory of numerology. Heck, why didn't Jesus minister on earth for 7 years? Or be crucified in His 35th year? Makes no sense!

12 = Governmental perfection thus only 12 not 13 as some claim.

153 = 9 x 17
9 = Finality or judgement 3 x 3 with 3 equal Divine perfection thus 9 means finality or judgement from a divine stand point
17 = the perfection of Spiritual Order 7 = Spiritual perfection and 10 equals ordinal perfection this the perfection of Spiritual order

7 x 5 = 35 thus Spiritual perfection x 5 =Grace Because of God's spiritual perfection and His Grace we receive salvation.

If you know numerology it makes perfect sense. The edit for the post is in red

 

[Amy.G]

Luke 10:1
KJV 1 After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

NIV 1 1 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go

I have also seen the NAS say 72 also.

Since the number 70 represents divine order then it would make since that Jesus sent out 70 not 72. I haven't compared it all but as I was teaching the significance of numbers in scripture and some folks had the NIV and NAS saying seventy two we found this. The original is always from an interlinear greek to english to me and it says seventy (hebdomEkonta).

I have the NASB '77 and the update and both say 70, although there is a footnote that says "some manuscripts say 72". But the text has 70.

I agree with you on the significance of numbers. I first learned about it from Adrian Rogers.

 

[BobinKy]

12 = Governmental perfection thus only 12 not 13 as some claim.

153 = 9 x 17
9 = Finality or judgement 3 x 3 with 3 equal Divine perfection thus 9 means finality or judgement from a divine stand point
17 = the perfection of Spiritual Order 7 = Spiritual perfection and 10 equals ordinal perfection this the perfection of Spiritual order

7 x 5 = 35 thus Spiritual perfection x Grace Because of God's spiritual perfection and His Grace we receive salvation.

If you know numerology it makes perfect sense.

revmwc...

Can you suggest some resources on Biblical numerology?

...Bob

 

[revmwc]

revmwc...

Can you suggest some resources on Biblical numerology?

...Bob

E. W. Bullinger's book the Significance of Numbers is the one I studied although I am sure there are others, we are getting off track on this so maybe someone could start a thread on this subject.

 

[BobinKy]

E. W. Bullinger's book the Significance of Numbers is the one I studied although I am sure there are others, we are getting off track on this so maybe someone could start a thread on this subject.

Thanks. I will start a thread in the General Baptist Discussions section.

...Bob

 

[Askjo]

Not NY. We just shut down all of the deaf schools.

All 4 deaf schools are closed in NY????? Why are they closed?

 

[Rippon]

All 4 deaf schools are closed in NY????? Why are they closed?

Didn't you hear?

 

[annsni]

All 4 deaf schools are closed in NY????? Why are they closed?

Money. It's so stupid.

Didn't you hear?

Ba-dump-bump!

 

[Askjo]

Money. It's so stupid.

Can't they move together in one place so this would save $$$.

After deaf schools are closed, where will deaf students go?

 

[InTheLight]

Just to answer a few without a dictionary many of these are still used today such as we prevented them from going. She plaited her hair. We mined the Bdellium. We received the exacted (exactor) right amount. Most of these are very easy to understand if you have a good vocabulary. Maybe that is the problem since the bible isn't allowed in schools the vocabulary words many of us grew up knowing aren't taught anymore.

You got 2 1/2 out of the 16 you answered correct (You got plaiting and peculiar people correct. Firkin is approximately 10 gallons. You get half a point for answering 'measurement'.)

Bdellium is resin. Exactor is a measuring device, similar to a ruler.

 

[annsni]

Can't they move together in one place so this would save $$$.

After deaf schools are closed, where will deaf students go?

They'll have to be mainstreamed.

 

[DiamondLady]

I think I am pretty sharp and do okay with KJV era language - then I come across a word like bruit which was in my Bible reading today. I had no idea what a bruit was. I wonder how many other readers do without looking it up?

Looked bruit up for you in my little Chick Publication archaic words booklet and it says, " report; rumor; sound; noise and gives Jer 10:22 as the reference verse