Passive Occupy protesters take pepper spray blast

[Robert Snow]

But then I see them verbally assaulting children trying to get to school in lower Manhattan and I think they are all selfish ogres who deserve more than what they get.

So, some in lower Manhattan do wrong, so it gives the police department the right to pepper spray other protesters.

Why don't you just admit that you don't care what the police department do to these protesters because you don't agree with what they are protesting.

Several years ago our church was involved in many abortion protests here in Houston. I'm certainly glad the police department here didn't resort to these types of tactics.

 

[Don]

Don as usual you try and cover the truth by twisting the truth. Just like you are doing seeking a way to support the criminal activities of the police. If you look at the post it was a question, not a statement. So tell me are you backpedaling that the police or military would never violate the peoples freedoms or rights?

You posted the back-pedaling comment after I mentioned that I had never said what you indicated that I said; thus, my seeking clarification for what you were posting the comment about.

Nope, I'm not back-pedaling at all. Show where I've said that the police or military would never violate the people's freedoms or rights.

 

[Don]

So, some in lower Manhattan do wrong, so it gives the police department the right to pepper spray other protesters.

Why don't you just admit that you don't care what the police department do to these protesters because you don't agree with what they are protesting.

Several years ago our church was involved in many abortion protests here in Houston. I'm certainly glad the police department here didn't resort to these types of tactics.

You bring up an interesting question: why didn't they resort to those types of tactics?

 

[freeatlast]

You posted the back-pedaling comment after I mentioned that I had never said what you indicated that I said; thus, my seeking clarification for what you were posting the comment about.

Nope, I'm not back-pedaling at all. Show where I've said that the police or military would never violate the people's freedoms or rights.

You don't remember me saying several weeks ago how the military would move against the people and how you took offense at it?

 

[Max Fenster]

I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I'm very glad to see young people passionate and willing to stand up to authority for their beliefs. I thought this had been brainwashed out of most young people. Happily, I'm wrong.

 

[Don]

You don't remember me saying several weeks ago how the military would move against the people and how you took offense at it?

That's not what I took offense to, as I re-stated in this thread.

BTW: you keep coming back to "the military is going to move against the public"; that's only partially correct. It won't be the military in charge of such a situation, only used for such a situation.

 

[InTheLight]

I bet Curtis has the longest ignore list on the board. He seems to relish in who he doesn't like to talk with.

No, I bet I have the largest ignore list on the board.

At this time, there are 4 current members on my ignore list. You are there because of your childish, taunting, insulting P.M.s.

Four? Can't speak for the others but I've got Bro. Curtis beat!

 

[freeatlast]

That's not what I took offense to, as I re-stated in this thread.

BTW: you keep coming back to "the military is going to move against the public"; that's only partially correct. It won't be the military in charge of such a situation, only used for such a situation.

Typical political rhetoric. I was just following orders. Now I wonder where I have heard that before? Perhap Nazi Germany or any other nation that stomps on the rights of the people? By the way the following orders was and is my point. Our military and police are brain washed to do what ever they are told even rip away our rights, liberties, and freedoms.

 

[TCassidy]

No, I don't get my history from movies; but what movies I do watch are based on historical events.

Yes, "based on historical events." But not necessarily historically accurate. Mrs. Moore never delivered a telegram. She did start following up with the families of soldiers who were killed while serving in her husband's battalion, but that was all. And every other ombudsman did the same thing. I served with another Lt. Col., who did a lot more, but never got a lot of recognition for his heroic actions. I had the privilege of spending the day with my old friend about 9 months ago when he was here in town. He is 89 years old and still as active as he was 50 years ago. Google "John Vessey."

What did that particular event have to do with this thread? Has anyone actually thought to wonder how many of these policemen are "enjoying themselves," or merely fulfilling a job requirement they don't necessarily like?

So, you are saying these cops are willing to violate people's rights just because they get paid for it? When I wore a badge I refused to violate anyone's rights or enforce an unjust law. A man who will take money to violate the rights of others is not someone to look up to. He is to be identified and removed from office!

 

[Robert Snow]

You bring up an interesting question: why didn't they resort to those types of tactics?

You tell me. There were a couple of arrests during this time. Everyone didn't do exactly what the police said, but no one was pepper sprayed.

 

[InTheLight]

Typical political rhetoric. I was just following orders. Now I wonder where I have heard that before?

I heard you espousing it in a thread a month or two ago.

Our military and police are brain washed to do what ever they are told even rip away our rights, liberties, and freedoms.

Like shooting at a speeding automobile that is approaching the checkpoint of a military base. Shooting first and asking questions later was the approach you favored in that circumstance. Now I see you are changing your tune.

 

[annsni]

So, some in lower Manhattan do wrong, so it gives the police department the right to pepper spray other protesters.

Why don't you just admit that you don't care what the police department do to these protesters because you don't agree with what they are protesting.

Several years ago our church was involved in many abortion protests here in Houston. I'm certainly glad the police department here didn't resort to these types of tactics.

Don't disobey the law, don't taunt children and don't attack police and maybe you won't get pepper sprayed.

 

[annsni]

You bring up an interesting question: why didn't they resort to those types of tactics?

Because more than likely they didn't disobey the law.

 

[Don]

Typical political rhetoric. I was just following orders. Now I wonder where I have heard that before? Perhap Nazi Germany or any other nation that stomps on the rights of the people? By the way the following orders was and is my point. Our military and police are brain washed to do what ever they are told even rip away our rights, liberties, and freedoms.

And yet again, you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

There was a conversation some months ago where I and others tried to impress upon you that questioning orders was not only a good thing, but a duty and a responsibility; your response at the time was that a troop couldn't be guilty for following orders.

Then there's the conversation that Targus references, where you advocate snipers shooting civilians; one has to wonder how you would respond if one of those snipers refused to follow orders.

And now you bring up that the military would be to blame for following orders.

You're just a bundle of self-contradictions, aren't you?

 

[Don]

You tell me. There were a couple of arrests during this time. Everyone didn't do exactly what the police said, but no one was pepper sprayed.

So--either the people you were with didn't behave the same way, or the police in your area are different for some reason, or something else?

 

[TCassidy]

Don't disobey the law, don't taunt children and don't attack police and maybe you won't get pepper sprayed.

Is that what you would have told the marchers in Birmingham in 1963 or Selma in 1965? Or is that what you would have told Peter and the Apostles in Acts 5:29?

 

[Don]

Yes, "based on historical events." But not necessarily historically accurate. Mrs. Moore never delivered a telegram. She did start following up with the families of soldiers who were killed while serving in her husband's battalion, but that was all. And every other ombudsman did the same thing. I served with another Lt. Col., who did a lot more, but never got a lot of recognition for his heroic actions. I had the privilege of spending the day with my old friend about 9 months ago when he was here in town. He is 89 years old and still as active as he was 50 years ago. Google "John Vessey."

First, Mrs. Moore isn't in question here. Second, I have yet to find anything that contradicts the Army using taxi drivers; because, as you pointed out, they weren't prepared. Third, the point is not about the use of taxi drivers, but a man doing a job that wore at his soul--but had to be done.

I, too, have had to deal with death while on active duty; albeit, not the same circumstances nor to the same extent as you.

So, you are saying these cops are willing to violate people's rights just because they get paid for it? When I wore a badge I refused to violate anyone's rights or enforce an unjust law. A man who will take money to violate the rights of others is not someone to look up to. He is to be identified and removed from office!

No; what I'm saying is, when you wore a badge, what would you have told the chancellor that requested you to remove a safety hazard? If your shift supervisor made the call to respond, what would you tell him/her? Why don't all policemen think the same? Why does one policeman shoot, and another doesn't?

Let's not forget a certain point: these were campus police.

 

[Don]

Is that what you would have told the marchers in Birmingham in 1963 or Selma in 1965? Or is that what you would have told Peter and the Apostles in Acts 5:29?

You know, Tom, I have to ask: 1963 and 1965 were about civil rights and unjust laws. Peter and the apostles were about salvation. How are these similar to what's happening today?

 

[TCassidy]

No; what I'm saying is, when you wore a badge, what would you have told the chancellor that requested you to remove a safety hazard?

I would have asked, "What safety hazzard?"

If your shift supervisor made the call to respond, what would you tell him/her?

I would have refused to violate anyone's rights or to enforce an unjust law.

Why don't all policemen think the same?

Because some are mercenary and some are libertarian.

Why does one policeman shoot, and another doesn't?

Some are addicted to the adrenalin rush that accompanies such activity and some are not.

Let's not forget a certain point: these were campus police.

Campus police in California must be POST (California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training) certified to the standard of CPC (California Penal Code) 830.2b. He has no excuse any more than Craig Peyer had an excuse for his unconscionable conduct.

 

[TCassidy]

You know, Tom, I have to ask: 1963 and 1965 were about civil rights and unjust laws. Peter and the apostles were about salvation. How are these similar to what's happening today?

Peter and the Apostles, in Acts 5, was about being told it was illegal to do as they were doing. They refused to obey an unjust law. We should learn from them.