-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Perseverance of Saints is.....actually it is Eternal INsecurity
- Thread starter vooks
- Start date
vooks
Active Member
Eternal security is CONDITIONAL. UNCONDITIONAL security is heresy
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The Arminian can know for certainty that he is saved today - but cannot know that he/she will continue along that path - 10 years from today.
The 3 and 5 point Calvinist - cannot even know that because he/she will retro-revoke even today's assurance if it turns out that 10 years from today they fail to persevere.
Not a fault with the Bible definition of perseverance of the saints - just a problem with the man-made additions to it.
in Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There is the option of the 4 point calvinists - which say that you can be converted as a teenage - then live like the devil to the day you die and go to heaven any way because that is what the Gospel is all about, repentance "optional", reformation" optional" - sanctification "optional" Matt 7 "optional", Romans 2 "optional", 1Cor 6 "optional", Romans 11 "optional".
If this is true, then it would be beneficial for a person to commit suicide once they know they have been saved.
How does this response answer my question about your OSAS signature?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Depends on whether such an Arminian believes that suicide is a falling away from the faith - or "perseverance in it".
vooks
Active Member
You are reading your own things. You are not the first:laugh:
vooks
Active Member
I don't know Armian theology, but am perfectly at home with punching human philosophies in whatever form.
Calvinism of any form is sheer lunacy
How could it be falling away from the faith when the person kills themselves solely because they do not want to risk falling away?
Still doesn't answer my question. Why is your signature the opposite of what you are here promoting? You declare one must retain their salvation.
vooks
Active Member
It is not opposite. Faith is not works
vooks
Active Member
You are long out of facts and are just digressing.
Briefly and quickly, is faith in God a work?
No. And that is why your position is error. Those who overcome, are those who believe in Jesus Christ. There is no working to retain your saving faith. Once you have been born of God, eternal life in Jesus Christ is in you forever.
1Jo5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
Are you born of God? If so, it is finished. You overcome.....
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Many Arminians believe that obedience is better than rebellion, war against God... that sort of thing.
Reading the Bible we find that Christ said "if you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15 which includes "thou shalt not kill" as even James admits in James 2.
Christ said that to be at war against the commandments of God - is to invalidate worship itself.
Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
So it is "surprising" to me that you would argue that Arminians think that rebellion against God is the way to heaven.
vooks
Active Member
If faith is not work then having faith is not working
Faith is what appropriates the merit of Calvary. Faith is what keeps you, losing your faith is losing everything received by faith. And this is why there are dozens of warnings against losing your faith as well as keeping it.
2 Peter 1:10 (KJV)
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall
Why the need to make my calling and election sure if it is immovable?
Last edited by a moderator:
So Arminians do not believe one is justified by faith alone, they must also keep all the commandments without fail. Guess that is why I am not an Arminian.
"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
So you do these things because you are afraid you could stop believing in Jesus Christ?
I have a hard time understanding those who live in fear of losing their salvation. I have been born-again since 1973, that is 42 years, and never once did my spirit ever stop believing on Jesus Christ. It's an odd concept to me that some who declare they are Christians have this fear that they could somehow stop believing if they do not tow the line in some way.
Talk about one having eternal insecurity........not me.
Last edited by a moderator: