Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon

[DHK]

Let me explain it so it is more easily understood:

It (the fall) was not so affected that man, of his own will, cannot seek God, choose God, or even repent. God doesn't command the unsaved to do those things which are impossible for him to do. For example,

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1 Chronicles 16:11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Scripture does not teach that man cannot freely choose God. (as Calvinism teaches). Man is not a robot, forced to do God's will. This is a Calvinist concept that is not biblical.
The Bible teaches: God has given man a will, for he is made in God's image. He chooses either to receive or reject Christ.

I already went through the first half of this chapter. This verse is written to Christians, about Christians, and never for a moment has the non-elect in mind. (concerning Ephesians 1)

Yes, you are right. That is what make Calvinism so cruel.
(What does?)

The fact that: their sins are all paid for,(according to the non-Cal, and as you mentioned) and yet they are doomed to hell anyway.
Since we believe, the onus is on them to reject or receive the gift of salvation that Christ paid for, this makes God very cruel. Salvation is not an automatic selection of God as to who shall be regenerated and who shall not. (rather "whosoever will")

 

[BobRyan]

Let me explain it so it is more easily understood:

It (the fall) was not so affected that man, of his own will, cannot seek God, choose God, or even repent. God doesn't command the unsaved to do those things which are impossible for him to do. For example,

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1 Chronicles 16:11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

If the John 12:32 "Drawing all men unto me" that God does as He "Convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" is a supernatural work done by God - for all mankind -- then would it not be just and right for God to call all mankind to repentance EVEN though they had sinful natures that were naturally disabling choice - yet God was supernaturally working to over come that disability?

Does any scripture teach that God does nothing and then man chooses to repent?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[savedbymercy]

Have you not read the account of Nicodemus coming to Jesus.
Jesus answered him saying: "You must be born again."
He said: How can a man be born a second time..."
"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the spirit is Spirit."
"Marvel not that I say unto you, ye must be born again."

First, we are all born of the flesh, and we will always have a flesh nature.
That flesh nature will never leave us until we get to heaven.
The problem is that we are not all born of the Spirit. That was Nicodemus's problem. He needed to be born a second time--of the Spirit.

How?
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--He had to accept the free gift that Christ was offering him at that time.

Christ goes on to demonstrate that in the next few verses culminating in verse 16.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God ! Rom 8:8 ! Do you know what cannot means ? It means that they in the flesh don't have the ability to please God ! We men by nature are not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be ! Rom 8:7 so that rules out any man by nature having the ability to obey the commandment of God to Repent as here Acts 17:30 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Folks many try to escape the Truth about those in the flesh cannot please God, that it applies to Believers, but that is not possible, because believers who have the Spirit and are sealed by Him Eph 1:13 Paul says that they are not in the flesh Rom 8:9 ! So those in the flesh that can't please God in Rom 8:8 can only be unbelievers without the Spirit !

 

[savedbymercy]

Let me explain it so it is more easily understood:

It (the fall) was not so affected that man, of his own will, cannot seek God, choose God, or even repent. God doesn't command the unsaved to do those things which are impossible for him to do. For example,

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1 Chronicles 16:11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Scripture does not teach that man cannot freely choose God. (as Calvinism teaches). Man is not a robot, forced to do God's will. This is a Calvinist concept that is not biblical.
The Bible teaches: God has given man a will, for he is made in God's image. He chooses either to receive or reject Christ.

I already went through the first half of this chapter. This verse is written to Christians, about Christians, and never for a moment has the non-elect in mind. (concerning Ephesians 1)

Yes, you are right. That is what make Calvinism so cruel.
(What does?)

The fact that: their sins are all paid for,(according to the non-Cal, and as you mentioned) and yet they are doomed to hell anyway.
Since we believe, the onus is on them to reject or receive the gift of salvation that Christ paid for, this makes God very cruel. Salvation is not an automatic selection of God as to who shall be regenerated and who shall not. (rather "whosoever will")

There's no scripture that says God commads the unsaved to Repent or to believe ! If it is please show it !

 

[Don]

There's no scripture that says God commads the unsaved to Repent or to believe ! If it is please show it !

Matthew 9:13
Luke 5:32

 

[DHK]

There's no scripture that says God commads the unsaved to Repent or to believe ! If it is please show it !

Why didn't you read my post. The Scripture was provided. It is even post-Pentecost:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This sermon is preached on Mars' Hill to the pagan idolatrous Athenians. There were no saved present. They brought him there, saying,
"What will this babbler say?" Hardly the words of the righteous.

 

[Reformed]

Who needs Netflix or cable TV for entertainment when you can tune into the Baptist Board to watch the award winning series, "Anti-Calvinism Mania".

To quote a famous Disney movie. "Let it go! Let it go!"

 

[savedbymercy]

Why didn't you read my post. The Scripture was provided. It is even post-Pentecost:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This sermon is preached on Mars' Hill to the pagan idolatrous Athenians. There were no saved present. They brought him there, saying,
"What will this babbler say?" Hardly the words of the righteous.

Where does it say that God was commanding the unsaved to repent ?

Who said eveyone present at mars Hill was unsaved ? If in fact any there was lost, then the Gospel was hid to them, so that they could not believe 2 Cor 4:3-4 also if they were yet carnal, then they were not subject to the Law /Command of God, and could not be ! Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

All men not born again have a carnal mind ! That mind is enmity against God, its not subject to the Law of God !

That word subject hypotassō means:


I.to arrange under, to subordinate


II.to subject, put in subjection


III.to subject one's self, obey


IV.to submit to one's control


V.to yield to one's admonition or advice


VI.to obey, be subject

The carnal mind does not obey God, His Law. That word Law Nomos is without the greek article and means:

I.anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

A.of any law whatsoever

i.a law or rule producing a state approved of God

a.by the observance of which is approved of God



ii.a precept or injunction


iii.the rule of action prescribed by reason



B.of the Mosaic law, and referring, acc. to the context. either to the volume of the law or to its contents


C.the Christian religion: the law demanding faith, the moral instruction given by Christ, esp. the precept concerning love


D.the name of the more important part (the Pentateuch), is put for the entire collection of the sacred books of the OT

The carnal mind cannot obey God's Command, and we know that Repentance is God's Command Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if they are carnal lost men that God commands to repent, He knows they cant do it !

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me explain it so it is more easily understood:

It (the fall) was not so affected that man, of his own will, cannot seek God, choose God, or even repent. God doesn't command the unsaved to do those things which are impossible for him to do. For example,

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
1 Chronicles 16:11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.
Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Scripture does not teach that man cannot freely choose God. (as Calvinism teaches). Man is not a robot, forced to do God's will. This is a Calvinist concept that is not biblical.
The Bible teaches: God has given man a will, for he is made in God's image. He chooses either to receive or reject Christ.

I already went through the first half of this chapter. This verse is written to Christians, about Christians, and never for a moment has the non-elect in mind. (concerning Ephesians 1)

Yes, you are right. That is what make Calvinism so cruel.
(What does?)

The fact that: their sins are all paid for,(according to the non-Cal, and as you mentioned) and yet they are doomed to hell anyway.
Since we believe, the onus is on them to reject or receive the gift of salvation that Christ paid for, this makes God very cruel. Salvation is not an automatic selection of God as to who shall be regenerated and who shall not. (rather "whosoever will")

BOTH calvinism and classical arminianism though affirm that sinners are lost and spiritually in a state that makes us unable to freely respond to jesus in order to get saved though...

BOTH affirm that we must have God first apply towards us 'saving grace" and enable us to even be able to respond to jesus and be saved...

main differences would be IF the sinner can freely resist that grace and turn away, and just whom does God extend his grace towards...

 

[DHK]

Where does it say that God was commanding the unsaved to repent ?

Who said eveyone present at mars Hill was unsaved ?

Context:
What will this babbler say?
Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if they are carnal lost men that God commands to repent, He knows they cant do it !

This is your problem, the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible! This is your doctrine.

It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Context:
What will this babbler say?
Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)


This is your problem, the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible! This is your doctrine.

It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.

God loves all people in the sense that he created ALL of us in his own image, but he has a Covenant love extended towards ONLY those of us whom he decreed would be enabled to come to Christ and be saved...

 

[DHK]

God loves all people in the sense that he created ALL of us in his own image, but he has a Covenant love extended towards ONLY those of us whom he decreed would be enabled to come to Christ and be saved...

Can you provide Scripture where God shows different levels of love to different groups of people?

 

[savedbymercy]

Context:
What will this babbler say?
Acts 17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)


This is your problem, the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible! This is your doctrine.

It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.

You didn't show where God told the unsaved to Repent, so you made a invalid statement yet again !

 

[Revmitchell]

Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Protestant]

the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible!.....It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.

Did Moses call the Lord a cruel monster when He commanded Moses to confront Pharaoh with a demand which the Lord knew he would reject?

And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

In like manner we are commissioned to preach the Gospel to every creature.

However, unlike Moses we are not told beforehand the outcome of our preaching, though God has always known the end result.

Paul admits his commission is a most serious and profound one: to some the Gospel will bring eternal life; to others eternal death.

In either case, it is his duty as a faithful servant to preach the Word.

For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

The sin of unbelief is the fault of man, not the fault of God.

Man, of his evil self-will, willfully rejects Christ, preferring a religion/savior/saviors of his vain imagination instead.

There is none that understandeth, there is none [Jew or Gentile] that [willfully] seeketh after [the true] God.

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [including religious thoughts] was only evil continually.

The solution?

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Salvation is by the grace of God alone through the very faith given us by our most Holy and Gracious God.

 

[OldRegular]

This is your problem, the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible! This is your doctrine.

It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.

Does God save everyone?

Does God save those who have never heard the Gospel?

What about all those people who lived before the time of Jesus Christ; were they all sentenced to hell since only the descendants of Abraham were given the "oracles of God"?

Before you start making God, who saved one like you, into a cruel monster you should think a little!

 

[Don]

Where does it say that God was commanding the unsaved to repent ?

Who said eveyone present at mars Hill was unsaved ? If in fact any there was lost....

For SBM's statement to be true, we must assume that everyone Jesus preached to was of the elect. Everyone. Every. One. That there were NO unsaved in the crowd. None. Everyone in the crowd was already righteous and of the elect, because SBM has shown time and again that he believes the elect are saved before birth.

IF I were a calvinist, I'd be embarrassed that someone professing to be a fellow calvinist was putting forth such justifications on behalf of the rest of us.

I would have, instead, admitted that yes, there were un-elect in the crowd; but because of their unregenerate state, the Word was of no value to them.

So yes, I'd admit that Jesus commanded all men to repent; but, if I were a calvinist, I'd follow up with "but only the elect will obey." Not this inanity that implies *everyone* at Mars Hill was saved.

 

[Don]

DHK - you need to stop responding to SBM. You've fully attempted Proverbs 26:5; but SBM has shown he will not change his view. At this point, you're only fulfilling Proverbs 26:4.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK;

This is your problem, the absurdity of Calvinistic thought that makes out God to be a cruel monster commanding the unsaved to repent after they have heard the gospel--to do that which they cannot do, and then sending them to Hell for all eternity because they don't have the ability to do what he commanded them to do. Absurd! Horrible! This is your doctrine.

It is not what the Bible teaches. It is not the love of God.[/QUOTE

]

DHK,

Sorry you feel the God we worship is cruel or a monster.

Perhaps you need to take a sabbatical and do some more careful study and get your mind right.

The saints in heaven love and worship God for His righteous judgments on the wicked. If you cannot do the same are you sure you have it figured out???

I see no one in this heavenly scene saying God is a cruel monster....no.. they understand that he reigns from heaven

[ if it was the great tribulation as you had suggested, it would prove Jesus reigns as King right now}
but that was just an aside as it was not the tribulation that you suggested anyhow.

the point is those in heaven are okay with God's judging those who hate him.


19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.