Purgatory

[JonC]

Every Bible aloner claims the bible as their authority, which is absurd since they come away with different interpretations and doctrines from the same Bible.

What they are actually claiming is that their opinions are the highest authority. It’s not Bible alone, it’s Ego alone.

No. There are very few "Bible aloners". What we are talking about is men carrying over pagan doctrines and inventing doctrines versus doctrines from God.

Yes, interpretations can and will vary. Scripture addresses and allows for this.

But the RCC is not Christian. The Catholic Church is a blend of Christianity and paganism, and throughout its time it has interpreted Scripture differently. The current RCC doctrine of the Cross stands in contrast to the doctrine of the Cross taught by Augustine, Anselm, Tertullian, Origen, etc. It has even changed slightly since Aquinas.

 

[JonC]

There are SO many different interpretations and thus SO many evangelical denominations ALL claiming that the Holy Spirit revealed this 'truth' to them. Is the Holy Spirit schizophrenic? They can't explain this.

The RCC has taught many different and opposing doctrines throughout history. Is the RCC schizophrenic?

Scripture addresses and allows for differences in interpretation (Scripture specifically addresses differences in interpretation).

But we are not talking about interpretation at all. We are talking about replacing God's Word with the RCC doctrine of the day (doctrines that may be considered wrong by the RCC 100 years from now).

 

[canadyjd]

I got I from Cathode

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I got I from Cathode

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

So, you claim the Catholic Church 'forbids its followers from reading the bible'? Where do you get this nonsense?? I read the bible every day and with the Catholic Church's knowledge and encouragement. Don't post lies. False witness is a sin.

I got it from Cathode and you.

The RCC kept your mass in Latin for 1000 years, even though many priests couldn’t read Latin. Hocus pocus, just say the magic words and all sins are forgiven.

Even you claim you only read your bible with the RCC “knowledge and encouragement”. You regurgitate whatever your anti-Christ pope and paedo priests tells you to regurgitate.

Until about a hundred years ago, the official doctrine of the RCC was to kill any Christian that disagreed with official dogma. It was called the inquisition. The Jesuits were an order of priests founded on the charge to murder Christians that refused to accept RCC dogma.

Also official doctrine until about 100 years ago, forced genital mutilation of young boys singing in their choirs so their voices wouldn’t change at puberty.

Also official RCC doctrine until very recently, coverup abuse and move paedo priests from parish to parish so they can abuse even more children.

I don’t need a lecture from such about the proper understanding of doctrine.

Peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

Who are you to declare heresy? Only an infallible Authority can declare heresy. It’s just your fallible interpretation of scripture.

Opinions of scripture aren’t the Truth of Scripture.

That infallible authority is the inspired scriptures themselves, not Rome or any other church

 

[Walter]

I got it from Cathode and you.

The RCC kept your mass in Latin for 1000 years, even though many priests couldn’t read Latin. Hocus pocus, just say the magic words and all sins are forgiven.

Even you claim you only read your bible with the RCC “knowledge and encouragement”. You regurgitate whatever your anti-Christ pope and paedo priests tells you to regurgitate.

Until about a hundred years ago, the official doctrine of the RCC was to kill any Christian that disagreed with official dogma. It was called the inquisition. The Jesuits were an order of priests founded on the charge to murder Christians that refused to accept RCC dogma.

Also official doctrine until about 100 years ago, forced genital mutilation of young boys singing in their choirs so their voices wouldn’t change at puberty.

Also official RCC doctrine until very recently, coverup abuse and move paedo priests from parish to parish so they can abuse even more children.

I don’t need a lecture from such about the proper understanding of doctrine.

Peace to you

You have no idea what you are talking about. You just spew anti-Catholic propaganda. And, don't put words in my mouth. BTW, check out:

StopBaptistPredators.org for your paedo Baptist ministers and all the coverups. Far more protestant abuses than Catholic and that's well established. Even new special on cable about IFB sexual abuses rampant and cover up after cover up. Clean up your own back yard before you throw stones.

 

[JesusFan]

You have no idea what you are talking about. You just spew anti-Catholic propaganda. And, don't put words in my mouth. BTW, check out:

StopBaptistPredators.org for your paedo Baptist ministers and all the coverups. Far more protestant abuses than Catholic and that's well established. Even new special on cable about IFB sexual abuses rampant and cover up after cover up. Clean up your own back yard before you throw stones.

Rome kept the bible from the laity for centuries, and even to ths very day will only allow them to read in thru the grid view of papacy and the teaching of Rome period

 

[Walter]

Rome kept the bible from the laity for centuries, and even to ths very day will only allow them to read in thru the grid view of papacy and the teaching of Rome period

Not at all true. Sounds like you have been reading pure anti-Catholic nonsense. I read the bible everyday, pray the Psalms everyday, commune with Jesus everyday and of my free will. The Catholic Church did NOT keep the bible from the laity. Before the printing press bibles were VERY few and were treasured because of the work that had to be put in to produce one. People were allowed to read them but few could afford to have one penned.

 

[JonC]

Not at all true. Sounds like you have been reading pure anti-Catholic nonsense. I read the bible everyday, pray the Psalms everyday, commune with Jesus everyday and of my free will. The Catholic Church did NOT keep the bible from the laity. Before the printing press bibles were VERY few and were treasured because of the work that had to be put in to produce one. People were allowed to read them but few could afford to have one penned.

What he posted is somewhat true (not "not at all true"). For centuries the Roman Catholic Church forbade people possessing a translation of Scripture in their language, and only the "pious" were allowed to possess a bible (a Latin Bible). The Catholic Church DID keep Bibles away from the laity. But that was in times past.

 

[Cathode]

What he posted is somewhat true (not "not at all true"). For centuries the Roman Catholic Church forbade people possessing a translation of Scripture in their language, and only the "pious" were allowed to possess a bible (a Latin Bible). The Catholic Church DID keep Bibles away from the laity. But that was in times past.

The Catholic Church forbade bad and unauthorised translations of Her Book.

Remember, the Bible is entirely the Catholic Church’s Book, it is the Biblical Church.

The Catholic Church preserved the Scriptures from the Apostles and determined the Canon itself through Her Councils.

The thieves and robbers came 1500 years later, thieved the Catholic Book and robbed it of its original meaning by private interpretations and bad translations.

They deserted the Church Jesus founded long before the Bible, and founded their own churches on personal textual criticism of the bible that never belonged to them. The do it yourself churches. Reconstructionist churches by textual criticism, that had zero authority.

 

[Cathode]

What he posted is somewhat true (not "not at all true"). For centuries the Roman Catholic Church forbade people possessing a translation of Scripture in their language, and only the "pious" were allowed to possess a bible (a Latin Bible). The Catholic Church DID keep Bibles away from the laity. But that was in times past.

So how could Luther use the German Bible that preceded him?

Old English, Saxon, Polish, Swedish, Spanish, Czech, French, Italian Tuscan and Venetian, Dutch, all vernacular Bible translations before the Protestant rebellion.

If people prefer lies, then their beliefs are founded on quicksand.

There were many approved vernacular bibles long before Protestantism, if protestants are prepared to lie about this, then it shows they are not on the right side, and what else are they lying about.

It is so easily proved wrong. Just look up vernacular Bibles before the reformation, and Protestants are proven false instantly.

When Catholics first created the Canon, it was a vernacular Bible, the “Vulgate” meaning “common”, was the common Latin tongue for the Roman world.

“The righteous hate what is false, but the wicked make themselves a stench and bring shame on themselves.” Proverbs 13:5

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Rev 21:8

People have internalised the lies and made it part of themselves and spew them constantly. Satan is the father of lies.

There were many approved vernacular bibles before before Luther, Luther even used one himself.

Let the lie die, lies are a tool of Satan.

“You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness.”

 

[Cathode]

If people are actively using lies to try win an argument, they aren’t working for God.

“The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a snare of death.”

If they think it’s merely a legal contest and lies are just part of the game, they are using the weapons of the dark and evil, and are working for Satan.

Fully internalised lies get locked in, and traps people forever.

“For the sin of their mouths, the words of their lips, let them be trapped in their pride. For the cursing and lies that they utter,”

People who use lies are captured by them.

 

[canadyjd]

The Catholic Church forbade bad and unauthorised translations of Her Book.

Remember, the Bible is entirely the Catholic Church’s Book, it is the Biblical Church.

The Catholic Church preserved the Scriptures from the Apostles and determined the Canon itself through Her Councils.

The thieves and robbers came 1500 years later, thieved the Catholic Book and robbed it of its original meaning by private interpretations and bad translations.

They deserted the Church Jesus founded long before the Bible, and founded their own churches on personal textual criticism of the bible that never belonged to them. The do it yourself churches. Reconstructionist churches by textual criticism, that had zero authority.

The original scrolls written in the first century were preserved by the early church as the Apostles began to be martyred and it became evident that Christ’s return would be later than expected. By the end of the first century, these letters and gospel accounts were widely copied and shared among the churches. This was three centuries before the RCC came into existence when the first false pope in Rome forged a will from Constantine.

These faithful copies, known to be first hand accounts and witnesses to Christ’s life and ministry, were used to determine the validity of writings that began to crop up, claiming apostolic origin.

These word “canon” means a measuring rod. Many of these writings, rejected by the early church, were embraced centuries later by the RCC to support their many false doctrines rooted in paganism.

When the Muslims invaded Constantinople (now Istanbul Turkey) the Eastern Orthodox priests fled with many copied manuscripts in the original Kone Greek.

As Luther and others learned the Kone Greek and compared the original Kone Greek to the Latin Vulgate, they discovered many deviations, errors, and intentional falsehoods the RCC had been spewing for centuries.

The “Reformation” was an effort to reform the RCC, not start new churches.

As always when dealing with corrupt men, the RCC responded with violence when their power was being challenged.

By the things posted here, it seems many in the RCC long for the days when anyone who dared disagree could be tortured and murdered as if they were doing God a favor.

They were deceived by Satan, the father of lies and follow their father by murdering those who disagreed with their lies and challenged their authority.

Embrace this RCC tradition of lies and murder if that is what suits you.

As for me, I’ll follow the truth of God’s word alone.

Sola, Sola, Sola now and forever.

Peace to you

 

[Cathode]

The original scrolls written in the first century were preserved by the early church as the Apostles began to be martyred and it became evident that Christ’s return would be later than expected. By the end of the first century, these letters and gospel accounts were widely copied and shared among the churches. This was three centuries before the RCC came into existence when the first false pope in Rome forged a will from Constantine.

These faithful copies, known to be first hand accounts and witnesses to Christ’s life and ministry, were used to determine the validity of writings that began to crop up, claiming apostolic origin.

These word “canon” means a measuring rod. Many of these writings, rejected by the early church, were embraced centuries later by the RCC to support their many false doctrines rooted in paganism.

When the Muslims invaded Constantinople (now Istanbul Turkey) the Eastern Orthodox priests fled with many copied manuscripts in the original Kone Greek.

As Luther and others learned the Kone Greek and compared the original Kone Greek to the Latin Vulgate, they discovered many deviations, errors, and intentional falsehoods the RCC had been spewing for centuries.

The “Reformation” was an effort to reform the RCC, not start new churches.

As always when dealing with corrupt men, the RCC responded with violence when their power was being challenged.

By the things posted here, it seems many in the RCC long for the days when anyone who dared disagree could be tortured and murdered as if they were doing God a favor.

They were deceived by Satan, the father of lies and follow their father by murdering those who disagreed with their lies and challenged their authority.

Embrace this RCC tradition of lies and murder if that is what suits you.

As for me, I’ll follow the truth of God’s word alone.

Sola, Sola, Sola now and forever.

Peace to you

You are just running a false narrative mate. It takes intellectual honesty and a love of truth to look at the real history.

The Protestant rebellion was not a reformation at all, it just nullified the word and muddied the waters with conflicting interpretations and doctrines of every kind. And when the scriptures were made to mean anything, then it began to mean nothing to countless millions, ushering in modern atheism and a host of many other evils in the world today.

 

[JesusFan]

Not at all true. Sounds like you have been reading pure anti-Catholic nonsense. I read the bible everyday, pray the Psalms everyday, commune with Jesus everyday and of my free will. The Catholic Church did NOT keep the bible from the laity. Before the printing press bibles were VERY few and were treasured because of the work that had to be put in to produce one. People were allowed to read them but few could afford to have one penned.

Up until time of the Reformation, Rome kept Vulgate chained unto the tables, as no laity were allowed to read it as Rome were giving to them thei false gospel, but now do allow for catholic approved translations, but still can only read the bible as Rome interprets the scriptures

 

[JesusFan]

You are just running a false narrative mate. It takes intellectual honesty and a love of truth to look at the real history.

The Protestant rebellion was not a reformation at all, it just nullified the word and muddied the waters with conflicting interpretations and doctrines of every kind. And when the scriptures were made to mean anything, then it began to mean nothing to countless millions, ushering in modern atheism and a host of many other evils in the world today.

God intervened to keep the true Gospel alive, as Rome po;;eted Pauline Justification down to theur woeks based salvation system, and she officially apostatized at Council of Trent

 

[Cathode]

Up until time of the Reformation, Rome kept Vulgate chained unto the tables, as no laity were allowed to read it as Rome were giving to them thei false gospel, but now do allow for catholic approved translations, but still can only read the bible as Rome interprets the scriptures

Bibles were all hand written, and were worth over $100,000 in our money today, perhaps more.

These were protected in every Church, locked and chained to prevent theft. The whole community would attend Mass and hear the scriptures preached, only the very rich could afford a Bible before the printing press.

And besides that, literacy was very poor. Even if people could have a Bible, a bible would have been useless to them.

General Literacy is a very very new development in the world.

People generally in those times only knew the scriptures by preached word, as the Church was in the beginning with the Apostles.

People heard the preached Gospel and were saved long before anything was written down, and for more than a thousand years after it was written down, because 90% plus of people couldn’t read, and bibles were few in number.
That’s why Sola Scriptura is false, people were saved just by hearing the Gospel preached, when nothing was written or they were illiterate when it was.

 

[Cathode]

God intervened to keep the true Gospel alive, as Rome po;;eted Pauline Justification down to theur woeks based salvation system, and she officially apostatized at Council of Trent

False.

Salvation is by Faith alone, so long as you have the right definition of Faith, Faith working through Love as Paul says.
Not the wrongful understanding of faith many protestants have.

 

[canadyjd]

And since people couldn’t read and mass was held in the dead language of Latin, which even many priests couldn’t understand, the corrupt RCC replaced the truth of scripture with their many false doctrines.

Scripture tells us to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. A great hope and expectation of rest and joy after this life is over.

The RCC replaced that truth with the false doctrine of millions of years of suffering in purgatory and coerced folks to pay to get loved ones out such suffering. A lie straight from the mouth of Satan

Scripture tells us there is one mediator between God and man, Jesus, who stands at the right hand of the Father and makes intercession for us.

These RCC replaced that truth with many mediators accepting prayers on behalf of folks. A lie straight from the mouth of Satan.

Scripture tells we are a priesthood of believers, each and every saved soul. Jesus is our great High Priest. Priests have the privilege of going directly to God, Jesus Christ, for worship.

The RCC has replaced this truth with a hierarchy of many Priests between the faithful and God, which is a lie straight from the mouth of Satan.

Scripture tells us to call no man on earth “Father” as we have only one Father in heaven. Such a relationship is personal and beautiful.

The RCC has replaced this truth with many “fathers”, not the leased of which is the Pontus Maximus (pope). This is literally a pagan term from the Roman Empire which meant the great high priest of all religions. The “pope” claims to speak the words of God, replacing Jesus as our Great high priest and pretending to speak for God.

This is a lie straight from the mouth of Satan and Satan himself could not be prouder of how many he has deceived with these lies.

Continue to wallow in the lies of Satan and reject the truth of God’s word if that’s what you prefer.

I accept the truth of God’s Word over the lies of Satan and the RCC.

Sola, Sola, Sola, now and forever

Peace to you