Sola Scriptura: week-day-1 vs Bible Sabbath

[BobRyan]

Good post and of course both Is 66:23 and Lev 23:1-4 show that it is a day of worship.

I am happy to quote the text for those not inclined to read that scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

byGerhard Ebersoehn» Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:36 am


~Sola Scriptura~ for BonRyan and sda, is,

the Great White Lie,

How sad that the Bible can of such little interest --

speaking of the day of Christ's resurrection when in Luke 24 the disciples were still not convinced of it -

"While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity. ")

(No mention there of a weekly cycle or weekly memorial for either the death, burial, resurrection) But still all of these one-time-events - like the birth of Christ -- should be remembered.

oh no wait! that was already posted.

So far we have "you" for the source of that statement - and each time you 'quote you' you give us no reference at all for it -- other than our reading of your post.

Are we simply "not supposed to notice"??

Jesus was born - we should remember that event - yet it is not a weekly event.
Jesus died for our sins and was raised -- we should remember those events but there is no weekly cycle at all for them.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The blasphemous Great White Lie . . .

Page 789
What a day is this to the world!
Page 790
Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept.The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heavenwas to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity . . .

. . . EVERY WORD AND EVERY IMAGINATION THE SATANIC HERESY AND DECEPTION OF SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM and its unholy Sunday faith and idolatrous Sunday worship!

It more and more convinces me of eternal hell while it more and more lessens my concern over hell’s inhabitants.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

When reason, faith and honestly lack, the only armour of defence of the coward and bloated mind left, are pretending, hypocrisy and self-deception, while the only weapons of attack remaining, are disparaging remarks, insulting innuendos, and vitriol and acrimony towards challengers and opponents or people simply because mentally and morally better equipped than they. All the ad hominem tactics of the religious Narcissus’, provide nothing of substance or persuasive power, except to themselves, they are so drowned in the sizzling lake of their own holiness.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

#63

The blasphemous Great White Lie . . .
Page 789
What a day is this to the world!
Page 790
Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept.The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heavenwas to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity . . .
. . . EVERY WORD AND EVERY IMAGINATION THE SATANIC HERESY AND DECEPTION OF SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM and its unholy Sunday faith and idolatrous Sunday worship!
It more and more convinces me of eternal hell while it more and more lessens my concern over hell’s inhabitants.

 

[BobRyan]

Once again "nothing at all" about scripture... nothing at all about keeping every Sunday --- just the standard G.E. bold-type misdirection. Must be time to re-post the Bible texts in the OP.

 

[BobRyan]

DHK said: ↑
IF (and we are not) commanded to commemorate any day of the week it would be the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead.

Let's evaluate that claim "sola scriptura" --

1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.


============================= btw -

The elders consisting of scribes and pharisees are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .


Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Once again "nothing at all" about scripture... nothing at all about keeping every Sunday --- just the standard G.E. bold-type misdirection. Must be time to re-post the Bible texts in the OP.

That's right! "~"nothing at all" about scripture...~" in THIS:

The blasphemous Great White Lie . . .
Page 789
What a day is this to the world!
Page 790
Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity . . . "
"nothing at all" about scripture...~" EVERY WORD AND EVERY IMAGINATION THE SATANIC HERESY AND DECEPTION OF SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISM and its unholy Sunday faith and idolatrous Sunday worship!


EVERYTHING “~about keeping every Sunday~”! --- the standard SDA multiple-type misdirection of one BobRyan and his ‘messenger of the Lord’, “~What a day is this to the world!~” … “~day~” OF THE WEEK, “~to the WORLD~”— “the world” in real TIME of “the First Day of the week”!


Every TIME the great WHITE SDA Bob Ryan LIE is “~about keeping every Sunday~”! --- every TIME it is the standard SDA clear-type SATANIC WHITE LIE, “~The day~” OF THE WEEK “~that was a day~”—“the First Day of the week”, which SCRIPTURE, “~is about~”! Every time it is “the First Day of the week” according to the satanic WHITE SDA LIE, “~the day of rejoicing to all heaven~”— every time it is “the First Day of the week” which “~to the disciples~” “was a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity to the disciples" which every time is “the First Day of the week” which “~the scripture is about~”— “the First Day OF THE WEEK”.

When reason, faith and honestly lack, the only armour of defence of the coward and bloated mind left, are pretending, hypocrisy and self-deception, while the only weapons of attack remaining, are disparaging remarks, insulting innuendos, and vitriol and acrimony towards challengers and opponents or people simply because mentally and morally better equipped than they. All the ad hominem tactics of the religious Narcissus’, provide nothing of substance or persuasive power, except to themselves, they are so drowned in the sizzling lake of their own holiness.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

For they preach but they do not practice.

That is one thing about the SDA, they preach and they do practice what they preach, like their great White BobRyan LIE of the day that to heaven was the First Day of the week on earth but to the disciples and the church was no day of the week or earth!

 

[BobRyan]

if you only understand and employ ad hominem factless accusation such that a thread like this on "sola scriptura" testing regarding the subject of the TEN Commandments and specifically the weekly day of worship - then you will have great difficulty posting an actual Bible text or even discussing it - with your every post. In the example above all the venom is over the fact that Sunday is 'the first day of the week' and Saturday the 7th -- and that Christ was resurrected early on Sunday AM.

However there is no amount of venom and name-calling that changes that fact - was we all know.

I appeal for - serious posts.

 

[BobRyan]

Those who think the texts in the OP were all "written by Ellen White" -- need to read the OP...
#1 BobRyan, Mar 30, 2016

Having read it - then either address the actual point of the thread - or else tell us why you think that we need to only talk about how Ellen White is the author of those texts. In other words - avoid the venom and sola-ad-hominem, the sola-name-calling and let us get to the topic of the actual thread.

 

[BobRyan]

I figured you did believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. I am not claiming that this doctrine cannot be defended Sola Scriptura, but rather that your OP sets up a criteria (calling it Sola Scriptura) that could not be used to defend the doctrine of the Trinity.

What criteria is setup in the OP that would prevent us from using the sola scriptura method to evaluate both this topic and the Trinity -- sola scriptura.

The OP, seems to me, to take a particular subject and attempts to lay open a weakness in the Protestant and Reformed position of Sola Scriptura.

The OP does not mention "protestant or reformed" argument for anything. It simply does a straightforward contrast of specific details regarding a weekly holy day - a weekly day of worship and asks for each one "what does the Bible say".

Your conclusion that this does not reflect well on Protestant and Reformed arguments - is based on conclusions about what the answers to the Bible questions must be. In so doing you appear to agree with me that the conclusions from those Bible texts on those specific Bible questions are pretty obvious.

And "still" you have not shown a single thing that the OP mentions which would negate our establishing the Trinity - "sola scriptura" - using the same method.

I already gave the "Peter is god on earth" vs "Christ was God on Earth" as an example.

But in the case of Sabbath - the term actually IS used in the Bible - so might be some flawed "equivocation" in your proposal.

There are several aspects of this idea which perhaps we should enumerate. However, one aspect that is very certain to all is that the doctrine/teaching is that Scripture Alone is sufficient. The Papal position impugns this idea and adds to the authority of Scripture its own authority. And I believe that whenever men add to Scripture, they subtract. Which is clearly the case with RCC.

Sola scriptura can be seen in Acts 17:11. The NT approves that 'sola scriptura' testing of Paul. AND YET - Paul was indeed ADDING to scripture over the course of the NT period in the first century. So while your statement is certainly true to an extent - it does not work as a rule.

Sola Scriptura - is not denied or defeated by Paul's writing "more scripture" as you seem to propose.

Rather Sola Scriptura is about TESTING all doctrine, tradition, practice, teaching by the existing known scripture that you have. This they did in the case of Paul without having to add "and of course you will not be writing any more scripture -- because then you have failed the test".

(Having said that - I do accept that the canon of scripture is closed with the writing of John sometime in the 90's).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

A very good statement that is agreeable to all Protestant and Reformed believers is as follows:

1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31;Ephesians 2:20;Romans 1:19-21;Romans 2:14,15;Psalms 19:1-3;Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4;2 Peter 1:19,20 )

This is chapter 1 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith which is basically the same as the Westminster Confession. The Papal claim would add to this its own self and even go as far to lay infallibility upon a man they call Pope.

Which would be error to claim the man to be infallible. However even they claim that only when he speaks "ex cathedra" is his word infallible. (yet another error on their part -- but it helps to be "precise").

So, the OP claims that the Christian Sabbath cannot be established on the principle of Sola Scriptura.

On the contrary - the OP asks us to answer the question "what is the Bible Sabbath --according to the principle of - Sola Scriptura". The OP never argues that the Christian Sabbath would not be, must not be the "Bible Sabbath" - rather that the Christian Sabbath MUST be the Bible Sabbath if we are not going to abandon Sola Scriptura.

Very important distinction.

I suggest that the OP misses the mark on even what the principle is.

You also make that claim in your opening statement in this post - but never show the logic for it.

In fact you have yet to show any evidence for your other claim - which is that you cannot defend the Trinity using the same method pointed out in the OP.

And I would say that the Scriptures are wholly sufficient to establish both the doctrine and practice of the Lord's Day.

.
But never actually show us that such is the case.

You have made "claim after claim" -- rather well. But have not shown any of it to be true other than the fact that Catholics do not follow the Sola Scriptura model - which many of them freely admit.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In the example above all the venom is over the fact that Sunday is 'the first day of the week' and Saturday the 7th -- and that Christ was resurrected early on Sunday AM.

The only venom is the venom of the White Ryan LIE, "~that Christ was resurrected early on Sunday AM.~" for which neither White nor Ryan nor SDA can offer Sola Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

enough utter nonsense --

Back to the OP --



Let's evaluate that claim "sola scriptura" --

1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.


============================= btw -

The elders consisting of scribes and pharise es are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .


Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

The ~case~ of "~cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" ... at odds with Scripture~", is the ~case~ of BobRyan's pitch black White LIE that Jesus rose from the dead on the First Day of the week.

But hell's stench is added to its darkness where the Great White LIE has the First Day of the week instituted in the most holy place of God's ~presence~ in heaven, for heaven and earth to remember and uphold in honour of hell's lowest lying LIE, which comes down to making God, satan.

 

[BobRyan]

I think the OP has a pretty good argument for a sola-scriptura discussion.

Some posts on this thread have actually addressed the subject.

But we also have this...

But hell's stench is added to its darkness....

I think BaptistBoard can do better when it comes to a discussion on sola-scriptura.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I think the OP has a pretty good argument for a sola-scriptura discussion.

Some posts on this thread have actually addressed the subject.

Some posts except your own, BobRyan.

You are challenged to present Sola Scriptura for your NOT believing the Sabbath Day of the LORD GOD because He on it RESTED in and through Jesus Christ on strength of his Resurrection from the dead "by the all-exceeding greatness of God's power which He worked when He raised Christ from the dead and in it triumphed and thereby, therefore and therein, "FROM ALL HIS WORKS, RESTED".

And you are challenged to present Sola Scriptura for your FALSE veneration of Sunday in remembrance of Jesus' falsely presumed Resurrection from the dead on it, the First Day of the week.

YOU FAILED!

 

[BobRyan]

Yes I made huge ..mistake......you read my words....I SAID SUNDAY..... I.MENT SATURDAY.........Sabbath days are finished church met on sunday....ACTS20;7....Also see 1Corinthians16;2..........SORRY FOR MY BLUNDER

If it is true that some NT text says "the church met every Sunday for worship" then you have a great text to post on this thread -- this is where that very question is being asked with the request that the answer be "Sola scriptura" based.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If it is true that some NT text says "the church met every Sunday for worship" then you have a great text to post on this thread -- this is where that very question is being asked with the request that the answer be "Sola scriptura" based.

For both prophet [E.G. White] and priest [Bob Ryan] are profane; yes, in My house ['Sanctuary' a la SDA] I have found their wickedness, says the LORD. Therefore their way shall be to them like slippery ways; in the darkness they shall be driven on and fall in them; for I will bring disaster on them, the year of their punishment, says the LORD.' Jeremiah 23:11-12

If it is true what YOU AND YOUR SOP aver, Bob Ryan, that “on the First Day of the week” which “~to the disciples was a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity~” was “~the day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven~”, then, BobRyan SDA, “~where that very question is being asked with the request that the answer be "Sola scriptura" based~”, it is for you to present “~a great text to post on this thread~”. A great _Text_, Bob Ryan SDA, not a big rattling lie of disinformation and deceit.