Praise God that He is centered on Himself. All honor and glory belong to Him alone.
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Some arguments against Calvinism
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
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That's what Jehovah says.
Those who are Christ's gladly give Him that which is His alone, His glory....now, anti-Christs, well.......
AMEN!
I love the personal pronouns the Lord uses: I, My, Me. The Lord certainly is Me-centered --and that's the way it ought to be!
Yes well thinking cousin is not knowing.
Praise God for the seeing of the Word....comprehension is a good hint too.:thumbs:
Are you part of a congregation now?
Of course.
Think that you have misunderstood Calvinism, as we do not teach or hold to the Lord somehow being aloof and preprogramming all of us, and all things, as we do see Him being fully Sovereign, but also that we are fully accountable for our actions, and that He does allow us to "do as we desire", its just being sinners, we cannot desire to do/or even do/what he requires of us!
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Amen... if God were centered on something less than himself, then he would treasure something that is not the best... is that not what idolatry is? Treasuring something that is less than the best?
And when God is loving himself... it pours out onto us. I.e. when he is promoting himself, he is pouring out his heart about himself to us, the very thing that will bring us lasting happiness and satisfaction-God himself.
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Seven pages of name calling (idiot, etc) of dodging, and evading the arguments against Calvinism.
1) If God predestines everything... How many Calvinists addressed this and posted, "yes, God predestines everything." Not one.
2) God causes us to sin, if He predestines everything... How many Calvinists addressed this and posted, "yes, God causes us to sin." Not one.
3) If God has already chosen those who will be saved, and He predestines everything, then why does He punish those He compels to sin? Has any Calvinist addressed this and posted "yes, it demonstrates His glory to punish us for the sins He compelled us to do." Not one.
Instead we get seven pages of shuck and jive. They do not even attempt to defend it because it is irrational nonsense.
Yet again it was claimed the goats reject the gospel, nullifying Matthew 13, where folks receive the gospel with joy, yet are not saved. John says professing Christians go out from us because they are not of us, so yet again we have people attracted by the gospel of Christ but unwilling to fully and wholeheartedly commit.
Calvinism misrepresents scripture.
1) If God predestines everything... How many Calvinists addressed this and posted, "yes, God predestines everything." Not one.
2) God causes us to sin, if He predestines everything... How many Calvinists addressed this and posted, "yes, God causes us to sin." Not one.
3) If God has already chosen those who will be saved, and He predestines everything, then why does He punish those He compels to sin? Has any Calvinist addressed this and posted "yes, it demonstrates His glory to punish us for the sins He compelled us to do." Not one.
Instead we get seven pages of shuck and jive. They do not even attempt to defend it because it is irrational nonsense.
Yet again it was claimed the goats reject the gospel, nullifying Matthew 13, where folks receive the gospel with joy, yet are not saved. John says professing Christians go out from us because they are not of us, so yet again we have people attracted by the gospel of Christ but unwilling to fully and wholeheartedly commit.
Calvinism misrepresents scripture.
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This is why I dont like to be around that ilk.....they are all mean spirited. ZING :laugh: :tongue3:
Jesus spoke quite often telling His listeners to avoid hell, kinda makes you wonder why since Jesus knew they could do nothing about it anyways.
It really wouldn't matter if you want your kids to "want Jesus". They cannot want Jesus unless God makes them want Jesus, so your own personal desire for your kids could very well be a "no" from God in the TULIP world view.
Amen! :thumbs: I teach and believe everything you posted here.
If I were a young man and married a young woman again, and I truly believed TULIP was correct, I certainly wouldn't take the chance of having children just to see some of them spend eternity in hell, seeing they had no choice in the matter, knowing my efforts could play no part in their coming to know Jesus. As you described the TULIP way......"to add anything at all to God's grace is to destroy its graciousness".
psalms109:31
Active Member
There is so much more to learn from scripture that cannot be put together without using every word that comes from the mouth of God. So even this will be not enough. No matter how much we want to say God really means this the truth is still there that you will continue to argue with God for eternity for His word does not wither it is eternal.
Jeremiah 23:
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Luke 13
Repent or Perish
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,...
Psalm 22:5
To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Luke 11
50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
2 Corinthians 3:
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Romans 6
New International Version (NIV)
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Romans 12:5
so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Hebrews 4:1
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Jeremiah 23:
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Luke 13
Repent or Perish
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,...
Psalm 22:5
To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Luke 11
50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
2 Corinthians 3:
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Romans 6
New International Version (NIV)
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Romans 12:5
so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
1 Peter 1:20
He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
Hebrews 4:1
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
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Greektim
Well-Known Member
Quite true. And I am content in that truth that God is sovereign over my children. Like Paul, I pray and plead to God to bring them to spiritual life in the midst of God's sovereign election.
Here is a short excerpt from Matt Chandler on this issue. Very good. http://www.cross.tv/88811
And I also take refuge in concepts like a sanctified home (1 Cor. 7:14).
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Jesus spoke and taught about hell (1) in order to educate His elect listeners then about what they have been spared from, which sparing was determined from the foundation of the world, and (2) to educate His elect readers after then, now, and tomorrow of what they had been spared from, which like His listeners then, the sparing was determined from the foundation of the world.
He never preached on hell to scare them into turning to Him, like many do today, but for them to glorify God having realized the horror they were exempted from, and what He was about to go through in time to seal and affirm that exemption.
no sheep of His has ever been, or ever will be, destined to hellfire and brimstone, that is for the wicked unelect. They were called goats from the beginning, and His people were called His saints and sheep from the beginning.
He never preached on hell to scare them into turning to Him, like many do today, but for them to glorify God having realized the horror they were exempted from, and what He was about to go through in time to seal and affirm that exemption.
no sheep of His has ever been, or ever will be, destined to hellfire and brimstone, that is for the wicked unelect. They were called goats from the beginning, and His people were called His saints and sheep from the beginning.
:thumbs::thumbs::godisgood:
Thats between God and them.....again you are adding yourself and your judgement of God to His Kingdom. Something you should not do.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Hard-headed a stiff knecked people hasn't changed.
Men are responsible for what is happening around us because of rebellion and our effort to prevent the Gospel of Jesus Christ to spread and our murdering ways.
What is happening around us is because of rebellion and God doesn't mind given us what we deserve, not for us go turn away from Him but to turn us toward Him.
Satan the devil is the liar and murderer from the beginning and we are still believing his lies.
Divine Sovereignty doesn't get rid of our responsibility to trust in God even if the world is crumbling around us it is our own fault.
When we continue to do as Adam blame God for creating that which caused us to fall. When we are responsible for what we did and need to own up to it.
God chose the new creation in Christ born again by His enduring word not the dead old creation we was before Christ.
Men are responsible for what is happening around us because of rebellion and our effort to prevent the Gospel of Jesus Christ to spread and our murdering ways.
What is happening around us is because of rebellion and God doesn't mind given us what we deserve, not for us go turn away from Him but to turn us toward Him.
Satan the devil is the liar and murderer from the beginning and we are still believing his lies.
Divine Sovereignty doesn't get rid of our responsibility to trust in God even if the world is crumbling around us it is our own fault.
When we continue to do as Adam blame God for creating that which caused us to fall. When we are responsible for what we did and need to own up to it.
God chose the new creation in Christ born again by His enduring word not the dead old creation we was before Christ.
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