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The Adoption

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Barry Johnson

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1689Dave said:
I was saved before the foundation of the world based on Christ's blood, shed for me in time. I believed as a result of this. Eternal life has no beginning or end.
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Which is Augustines gnosctism. If you were saved and ' in Him ' before you were saved and ' In Him ' then we have a contradiction. Notice where you were before you believed . eph 2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
So if you were saved before you were created and in him , how did you get lost and outside of christ ? and when you got put back in how do you know he wont lose you again ?
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
So why did Jesus die on the cross?
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it's as John the Baptist said " behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world " He died to pay for sin .to redeem everything , He redeemed all the sins that were temporarily covered by the blood of sacrifices. He defeated sin and death . He redeemed everything including from Satan and the entire creation . He broke down the middle wall of separation . And so much more . But unless a person appropriates this it's of no effect to them . Without being born again . Without being sealed by the Holy Spirit. without the blood being applied, Without receiving the imputed righteousness. without receiving Justification. Without receiving the Atonement no one will see God . Hell was made for the Devil and fallen Angel's. People Go there because they refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved .
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
it's as John the Baptist said " behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world " He died to pay for sin .to redeem everything , He redeemed all the sins that were temporarily covered by the blood of sacrifices. He defeated sin and death . He redeemed everything including from Satan and the entire creation . He broke down the middle wall of separation . And so much more . But unless a person appropriates this it's of no effect to them . Without being born again . Without being sealed by the Holy Spirit. without the blood being applied, Without receiving the imputed righteousness. without receiving Justification. Without receiving the Atonement no one will see God . Hell was made for the Devil and fallen Angel's. People Go there because they refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved .
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If you were raised a Jew, in the first century, you would know the Promise to Abraham included not only Jews as in the OT, but gentile believers of the NC too. = whole world, not just physical Israel. Why didn't Egypt, Moab, Babylon, and others have the temple if Jesus died for them too?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Which is Augustines gnosctism. If you were saved and ' in Him ' before you were saved and ' In Him ' then we have a contradiction. Notice where you were before you believed . eph 2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
So if you were saved before you were created and in him , how did you get lost and outside of christ ? and when you got put back in how do you know he wont lose you again ?
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Jesus says whoever believes HAS eternal life.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
ok notice the order of salvation here in Eph 1
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Notice a person here has heard the Gosepl and trusted ' the word of truth ' . And after this they were sealed by the Holy Spirit .
People can place there trust in the Quran they can believe In Morminism and believe in the book Of Mormon , The watchtower , ect but they cant believe truth of the Bible ? All of sudden they cant place their trust and believe in the Gosepl when heard ? somehow this information which is From the Holy Spirit all of a sudden this truth cannot be believed? . The bible commands and expects people to believe and holds them accountable to believe.
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There is the New Birth that is salvation. And the gift of the Holy Spirit after that. They are not the same.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
If you were raised a Jew, in the first century, you would know the Promise to Abraham included not only Jews as in the OT, but gentile believers of the NC too. = whole world, not just physical Israel. Why didn't Egypt, Moab, Babylon, and others have the temple if Jesus died for them too?
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No one was saved by the temple or by works nor by sacrifices. Jews or procelytes. In all times people are saved by faith . How people appropriate salvation ( by faith) is different at different times . Ie Noah , Abraham, Moses ect . The point is that no one is saved by the death alone .
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
I'd argue they all happen at the same time. including being predestined. All of this only happens after believing..
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After Pentecost it happens at the same time. But until then they did not. So you need to include this in you interpretation of first-century Jewish converts to Christ.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
After Pentecost it happens at the same time. But until then they did not. So you need to include this in you interpretation of first-century Jewish converts to Christ.
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That's why we shouldn't use the transitional book of Acts of the Apostles for how we are saved .
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You make receiving a work of the flesh. It is not. It's totally passive like receiving praise or credit.
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No because the bible says it's not a work . simple . believing the Gosepl is not a work. its " by the law of faith " as opposite to the law of works .
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
When we get the redemption of the body ( Adoption ) then it will be manifest and can be said " now that's a son of God . "
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While we seem to be in agreement on the adoption as sons being yet to be received, Romans 8:23. Stating that in that way can be missunderstood to mean we are not yet sons by those who missunderstand the Adoption. Of course, I presume, that is not what you are saying, 1 John 3:2.
 
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