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Very sad that the Holy Spirit doesn't teach you the truth about John 5:28, 29 which teaches a general resurrection and judgment! Or is you simply won't put a dot beside that Scripture!

 

You are shuffling your feet. Answer the question:

If a price was paid someone had to receive the payment. Name that person!

 

Quote me saying this.

The answer has already been given...

...my hasty and haughty friend.

Of course. God is Sovereign.

Doesn't negate the fact that we clearly see Him, through the events of the Tribulation...assert full control over the current creation:



Revelation 11:15-19

King James Version (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Revelation 12:9-12

King James Version (KJV)

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.



God bless.

 

Right. The Holy Spirit has led you to remove from Scripture the other two resurrections besides the First Resurrection (which you ignore) and the thousand year period He mentions six times.

And it is not the Holy Spirit that keeps you from answering one simple question: how many resurrections in Revelation?

There are three, yet you somehow only see one.


God bless.

 

As you do the following:

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

Here is another example of payment:


Revelation 18:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.


Also something that is a consistent theme in Scripture:


Isaiah 47:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.

8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.


And perfectly within a Tribulation framework:


Matthew 24:37-39

King James Version (KJV)

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


If you would actually study the Bible rather than Church Fathers...you might begin to see the big picture, and refrain from questions like these.


God bless.

 

You still will not answer the question but are throwing up a smoke screen. Is that smoke coming from the rapid shuffling of your feet.

If the Great Tribulation is payment for the redemption of the earth, as you and rm claim, to whom is the payment made. It really is a simple question so answer it. Someone had to receive that payment. Name that person!

 

I have not neglected to account for this resurrection:


Revelation 20:12-15

King James Version (KJV)

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Now the resurrections you flee from and cannot speak about and reject:



Revelation 11:7-12

King James Version (KJV)

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.



Revelation 20

King James Version (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


And clearly none of these three resurrection meet the criteria for the Rapture.

This is Scripture you take away from the Word of God to contrive and perpetuate a doctrine of men.


God bless.

 

First, I never said the Tribulation was "payment for the redemption of the earth," it is simply a matter that God exacts vengeance on those who's wages are given to in the Tribulation.

Secondly, your deflection will likely go unnoticed by those who have to support your weak teachings which ignore much of Scripture. You are a one verse pony, my friend, and your exclusion of Scripture is quite evident.

Lastly, I will ask for some honesty among the a-mils and those sitting on the fence: do you agree with BR that the question has not been answered.

He has asked "who gets paid?" and the answer has been supplied.

Is there even one among you that will be honest enough to point out that the question has been answered?


God bless.

 

Greetings brother,

Though some believers see the Bema and Great white throne as one and the same (judgment to both believers and unbelievers) other scripture says this in support of your exegesis:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

HankD

 

Just name the person to whom payment was made!

 

I don't know who BR is but the question has not been answered.

 

Don't blame me if Revelation is beyond your ability to comprehend!

 

You simply ignore it. You certainly have not accounted for it. The Revelation of GOD is to be taken in its entirety, not splintered as you people do!

 

You are dancing around, shuffling your feet but you will not name a person. Saying it is the same person who received payment for our sins is not an answer because there are different views on that!