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The first Pope was a married Priest

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church mouse guy

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I have read extensively on the Catholic Church and will sometimes attend service. Pope Callistus and Saint Hippolytus were two important figures with two different theologies....

Hippolytus- the ideal of the church as a pure community and not tolerating sins, a church of the pure.
Callistus - the ideal of the church as a saving community representing the church as Noah’s Ark, taking in ‘all kinds,’ both clean and unclean. Being quick to lovingly encourage repentance and restoration. And also dealing with explosive church growth in his time.

I believe Pope Callistus was correct! And all Christian churches suffer from the unclean things that enter the congregations The only reason the Catholic Church gets the greater publicity is because they are the larger congregation. As long as we try to entertain the idea of ‘church’ scandal and problems will follow as we are all unique creatures. If my opinion would mean anything I would encourage the Catholic Church to allow married deacons to also pastor churches. Celibacy is tough as Christ taught as something all men cannot handle.

During the Moody Sankey revivals into Catholic Ireland a Mr Magee wrote an article saying, "FAIR PLAY I" 271 - "Our Human Catholic brcthren, us a rule, have acted a noble part. They have been respectful, and to a certain extent, sympathizing. In this week's number of the Nation—an organ at once of National (as it is called) and Ultramontane principles—au article has appeared, entitled, 'Fair Play!' which is exceedingly creditable, and which indicates the advent of a new day in Ireland. The editor informs his constituents that the deadly danger of the age comes upon us from the direction of Huxley and Darwin and Tyndall, rather than from Moody and Sankey. Irish Catholics desire to see Protestants deeply imbued with religious feeling, rather than tinged with rationalism and infidelity; and as long as the religious services of our Protestant neighbors are honestly directed to quickening religious thought in their own body, without offering aggressive or intentional insult to us, it is our duty to pay the homage.

It was nice, of this time, that the Protestants and Catholics could endure one another and see the real enemies from different avenues. I believe calling each other neighbors a righteous call. And this thread was not intended to be aggressive or an intentional insult to my Catholic neighbors. And I also call Baptist neighbors, much more closer in faith.

I do look over my shoulder into the affairs of my Catholic neighbors and wish them well. I have enjoyed EWTN, the events of concave, think Pope Francis a good guy, will occasionally visit the church, take interest in affairs such as celibacy, read up on the news, and would attend more services if the communion were not closed.

As I believe the Catholic Church has issues... Well... So does mine! I do not promote one church over the other. And another thing, I believe all generations as unique. There is a big difference in generations from WW1, WW2, Vietnam, and the generations to follow. The Spirit of my denomination, Pentecostal Holiness, disappeared along with passing of the WW2 generation and I doubt I will ever see again.

I believe, though, in this time, we must look over each other’s shoulders. I would be careful of in trusting any celibate man alone with people. I have no intentions of hurting anyone. But, if I were to re-enter youth ministry, I would have to do it in responsible company, so I would not be accused of hurting anyone. When I was in youth ministry I would have kids over to the house on weekends to grill out, watch TV, play games, have campfire devotions. We had a large fellowship that did well. The youth director and her husband moved on. Without the responsible help I had to give this up as well.

How can you say Pope Francis is a good guy when he covered up for McCarrick? Why is McCarrick still living inside an RCC facility? Why did Pope Francis cover up sex crimes in Argentina? Why is Pope Francis associated with the fascist Peronist party in Argentina? Why does Pope Francis hate the USA? Why does Pope Francis like communism?
 

JoeT

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How can you say Pope Francis is a good guy when he covered up for McCarrick? Why is McCarrick still living inside an RCC facility? Why did Pope Francis cover up sex crimes in Argentina? Why is Pope Francis associated with the fascist Peronist party in Argentina? Why does Pope Francis hate the USA? Why does Pope Francis like communism?

As I understand several accounts tell how McCarrick was “expelled from the Priesthood” . Common sense dictates It is unlikely he would be permitted take residence in the Vatican.

After being found guilty in court, he was stripped of clerical titles, rights and resources including housing and any other financial benefit; his laicization is permanent. Pope Francis ordered McCarrick to a life of penance and prayer. He now lives in a Victoria Kansas religious house. What you should be asking is why isn't he in jail?

Is there a reason you want to scandalize Pope Francis, make him part of the guilt’s crimes. And I do believe you have exaggerated his time in Argentina; perhaps even putting him on the wrong side of the conflict. Furthermore, he joined his grandmother as a member of the Catholic Action which defended the Church against fascism.

Do you know what you’re talking about or does your faith consider malicious gossip is a virtue - especially if it is about a Catholic? At least give us the facts as reality presented them to us in history.

Consider if you will, Protestants (including reform, evangelical, and ‘independent’ - Bible only) religions consider themselves part of the universal priesthood; each and every one. Catholicism has a Sacramental priesthood . We know that 51% of the prison population in the US is Protestant while only 15% are Catholic. So, now let’s consider 10% of the population of prisoners has been convicted of sexual crimes; who has the largest population of priests that are sexual deviants or common criminals in prison, Protestants or Catholics? Do the math.

JoeT
 

church mouse guy

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As I understand several accounts tell how McCarrick was “expelled from the Priesthood” . Common sense dictates It is unlikely he would be permitted take residence in the Vatican.

After being found guilty in court, he was stripped of clerical titles, rights and resources including housing and any other financial benefit; his laicization is permanent. Pope Francis ordered McCarrick to a life of penance and prayer. He now lives in a Victoria Kansas religious house. What you should be asking is why isn't he in jail?

Is there a reason you want to scandalize Pope Francis, make him part of the guilt’s crimes. And I do believe you have exaggerated his time in Argentina; perhaps even putting him on the wrong side of the conflict. Furthermore, he joined his grandmother as a member of the Catholic Action which defended the Church against fascism.

Do you know what you’re talking about or does your faith consider malicious gossip is a virtue - especially if it is about a Catholic? At least give us the facts as reality presented them to us in history.

Consider if you will, Protestants (including reform, evangelical, and ‘independent’ - Bible only) religions consider themselves part of the universal priesthood; each and every one. Catholicism has a Sacramental priesthood . We know that 51% of the prison population in the US is Protestant while only 15% are Catholic. So, now let’s consider 10% of the population of prisoners has been convicted of sexual crimes; who has the largest population of priests that are sexual deviants or common criminals in prison, Protestants or Catholics? Do the math.

JoeT

I think the reason that McCarrick is not in prison is that the statute of limitations has worked in his favor. Pope Francis was aware that Pope Benedict had restrained McCarrick but sent him to China and Cuba anyway according to Vigano, who now is on hiding for fear of his life. I think that the RCC should have put McCarrick on the street in light of his refusal to shut up as he recently gave an interview to Salon.

Pope Francis has had a person from Buenos Aires ask him at the Vatican about coverups back home. There is a reason thar he has not gone home. There is no doubt that he is connected to the ruling fascist Peronist Party. I am not sure if he has ever condemned the Iranian terror attacks against Jewish buildings in Buenos Aires. I know that the Iranians give money to the Peronists such as Kirchner.

I am no more anti-Catholic than Life Site News or Church Militant or The Spectator or Michael Matt or Taylor Marshall or three or four of the dissident Cardinals. What I am is anti-communist and I learned of Pope Francis and his liberation theology and communist mentor Esther Ballestrino de Careaga from Catholic anti-communists.

I do not know what to think about your prison statistics. I want all homosexual preachers fired from the SBC and I want the police called on all child molesters. In some jurisdictions the police and clergy are in cahoots. Here in Indianapolis they had Tobin as Archbishop--why do they have homosexual archbishops? Also, Brebuf School in Indianapolis has a homosexual teacher. Why does a Jesuit school refuse to fire a homosexual teacher?
 

robycop3

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It would not surprise me if your church followed some man-made doctrines.

Now, you say you do not use instruments for worship - is there a Biblical reason for that?






What I like to say is: "I dont know if Peter was married, but Scripture does say he had a mother-in-law

If we follow any man-made stuff, I don't know it.

We don't have music, not just no instruments, cuz we're a small church, & there aren't too many of us that have any musical talent, so we don't have a choir. And there are better uses for our limited funds than buying expensive instruments or a state-of-the-art sound system.

And it stands to reason that if Peter had a mother-in-law, he had a wife.
 

robycop3

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If you know Church history, you would know that celibacy was the practice of the majority of the Apostolic fathers, that is, those who immediately succeeded the Apostles. Married clergy in the early Church was a concession at first since the earliest Christians were converts, many of whom were Jewish males already married. However, those clergy who were married in the ancient Church were expected to practice clerical continence.

Still, no getting by the FACT that celibacy is a rule of MAN'S, not of GOD'S.
 

church mouse guy

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According to GOD'S rules, it's OK for ANY priest to be married.

I hope female clerics get a life and quit.

They say that part of the agenda of the current Amazon Synod at the Vatican in Rome is to allow for the ordination of women. I think that Pope Francis is going to flop with this expensive Amazon Synod. There is already widespread criticism of bringing in Amazon aborigines who probably wear blue jeans and t-shirts at home in the jungle and parading them around for photo-ops in feathered headdresses and never allowing them to speak. It seems as if it is exploitation of pagans for no good reason.
 

Adonia

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My church is IFB, & we don't follow Smyth

Smyth was first among the founders of the Baptist faith tradition, so you take you cues from him. Before he arrived no one called themselves "Baptists".

Now, please show us FROM SCRIPTURE where God commanded celibacy!

God Himself never commanded it, but the great evangelist St. Paul said it has it's place.

And, as the OP says, your first pope was married !

True. And then he left his wife. Personally, I would not have a problem with a married Latin Rite clergy as some Catholic clergymen are indeed married.
 

Salty

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If we follow any man-made stuff, I don't know it..
Thats one of my points right there
On one hand there is nothing wrong with "man-made stuff" - The problem comes when someone considers it doctrine.
For example - the pastor says - "As we read this mornings passage - we must stand up to respect Gods Word" -my statment- NO we dont - and in addition if that is true - does that mean everytime the preacher reads out of his Bible - we must stand up?....?


We don't have music, not just no instruments, cuz we're a small church, & there aren't too many of us that have any musical talent, so we don't have a choir. And there are better uses for our limited funds than buying expensive instruments or a state-of-the-art sound system..

I have no musical talent - but that doesn't stop me from singing. - In fact I have been in small churches - where the singing was horrible - yet we were making a joyful noise to the Lord. -- One concern I have about Hymns - is that from time to time, I will say "The time Baptists sin the most is when they sing hymns!. And I fully agree about limited funds. BUT with all things are Possible.....


And it stands to reason that if Peter had a mother-in-law, he had a wife.[/QUOTE] Of course it does - the reason I say that is to get peoples attention and to get them to think!
 

Salty

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Smyth was first among the founders of the Baptist faith tradition, so you take you cues from him. Before he arrived no one called themselves "Baptists".
That we know of.

Evidently, you are not familiar with Landmark Baptists


God Himself never commanded it, but the great evangelist St. Paul said it has it's place.
True. And then he left his wife. Personally, ...

And what is the reference that Paul left his wife?
 

robycop3

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Smyth was first among the founders of the Baptist faith tradition, so you take you cues from him. Before he arrived no one called themselves "Baptists".

Before my time there, our church was bull-blown, the whole 9 yards IFB. However, it began abandoning its stuff such as the KJVO myth, Now, it's only IFB in name only. We do NOT follow any MAN-MADE doctrines or rules of faith/worship.



God Himself never commanded it, but the great evangelist St. Paul said it has it's place.

And that same St. paul later said it was wrong to tell people not to marry. Your "church discipline" is man-made & therefore false.



True. And then he left his wife. Personally, I would not have a problem with a married Latin Rite clergy as some Catholic clergymen are indeed married.

Nothing says he left her. If he did, that was wrong.
 

rockytopva

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My dad went to Catholic seminary but dropped out along with many others. He would get college degrees at the top of his class. His friend in seminary would go on to create Domino's Pizza. When asking why? The answer was the toughness of seminary requirements and the requirement to know so many languages. The seminaries he attended have long ago been vacated. One of them is now a Word of Faith church.

My dad went to this seminary, Duns Scotus College - Wikipedia! Which is now a Word of Faith church run by Keith Butler (Keith Butler (Michigan politician) - Wikipedia) with over 22,000 in congregation. My dad has visited this place and is amazed with what they have done with it.
 

Salty

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My dad went to this seminary, Duns Scotus College - Wikipedia! Which is now a Word of Faith church run by Keith Butler (Keith Butler (Michigan politician) - Wikipedia) with over 22,000 in congregation. My dad has visited this place and is amazed with what they have done with it.

There was a Catholic Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pa. It was bought by Baptist Bible Seminary in 1969. (renamed Summit University)
The school is in fellowship with the GARBC - and FWIT - from 1986-2000, the President was Milo Thompson, who was my pastor from 1966-70
 

rockytopva

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There was a Catholic Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pa. It was bought by Baptist Bible Seminary in 1969. (renamed Summit University)
The school is in fellowship with the GARBC - and FWIT - from 1986-2000, the President was Milo Thompson, who was my pastor from 1966-70
I was brought up GARBC as a pre-teen when we lived up in Michigan in the 70s. My pastor used to take us to youth retreats upstate. The young people looked like the angels of heaven and the sermons would make you want to go to the altar to pray.
 

church mouse guy

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To which faith tradition are you posing this question? The Latin Rite nor any of the other orthodox faith traditions have women priests.

Yeah, just wondering what the Amazon Synod is going to do? It was shown today in Rome that 80% of the people in the Amazon live in cities and dress like people all over the world. Their major problems are drug addiction and abortion. They don't run around with feather headdresses like the ones flown to Rome for photo ops. The purpose of the Amazon Synod in part is to ordain women.
 

rockytopva

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Throwing in the whole family along with the qualifications....
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. - 1 Timothy 3
 
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