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Featured The Five Solas

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by atpollard, Oct 16, 2020.

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  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually Acts 13:48 was written like this as in the YLT.
    Act 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe—as many as were appointed to life age-during;
    Things are some times lost in translation.
    MB
     
    #61 MB, Oct 31, 2020
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    As many as were appointed to eternal life believed, period. What is it that you're imagining was lost in the translation?
     
    #62 kyredneck, Oct 31, 2020
  3. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Romans 16:13
    Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

    Salute (put your name here) chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

    Also Paul's mother is mentioned here, and seems she was a believer.


    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
    #63 Scott Downey, Oct 31, 2020
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ??? ...whoosh....right over my head. Sorry, I've totally missed your point. :D
     
    #64 kyredneck, Oct 31, 2020
  5. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Simply that, to be appointed to eternal life, would have meant to be chosen in Him.
    As in all those chosen in Him from before the foundation of the earth, will be appointed to eternal life and so then when Christ is preached to them n this life in God's perfect timing for them, they will believe.
     
    #65 Scott Downey, Oct 31, 2020
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Acts 13:48 reiterates Jn 1:12-13 (and other passages):

    12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name,
    13 who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1 YLT
     
    #66 kyredneck, Oct 31, 2020
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  7. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Another one here is 1 John 5:1

    ESV version, Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

    KJV Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    NKJV Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

    You believe because God regenerated you. (born you of Himself, so that your His newborn babe, so then a member of the family of God, so then by your new nature of one spirit with Him)

    I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
     
    #67 Scott Downey, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
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  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Amen!

    7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3

    14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned; 1 Cor 2
     
    #68 kyredneck, Oct 31, 2020
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  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You have lost sight of the meaning of Sola Fide and the error it was fighting to correct. At the core is the question “Does God MAKE you righteous or IMPUTE righteousness to you?” ...


    Sola Fide

    Often referred to as “the material cause” of the Reformation, the doctrine of justification sola fide (by faith alone) was a key point of debate between the Protestant Reformers and the Roman Catholic Church in the sixteenth century, and it has remained a point of disagreement ever since. Martin Luther and his followers expressed the importance of the doctrine of justification by faith alone by teaching that it is “the article by which the church stands or falls.” Was Luther correct in affirming the central importance of this doctrine? In order to answer this question, we must grasp the meaning of justification itself as well as the differences between the Protestant and Roman Catholic doctrines.

    The Roman Catholic doctrine of justification is most clearly expressed in the Decree Concerning Justification produced in the Sixth Session of the Council of Trent in 1547. According to this Decree, fallen human beings are “made just” through the “laver of regeneration.” In short, the instrumental cause of justification (being made just) is baptism. Justification is said to involve remission of sins and “also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man.” Justification is not by faith alone, according to the Council of Trent, because hope and charity (i.e. love) must be added.

    The Reformers rejected the ideas that justification means “making just” by a faith that is not alone and that it is accomplished through the instrument of baptism. But why? In order to answer that question, we must have some understanding of the basic issues underlying the debate. The first point to observe is that God is absolutely just and righteous, and He will judge the world in righteousness. So, what is the problem with this? The problem is that although God is perfectly just and righteous, we are not. We are fallen, sinful, unjust, and unrighteous creatures (Rom. 3:9–18). This raises an infinitely serious question for each of us: How can I, an unjust sinner, stand before our infinitely righteous and holy God at the final judgment?

    Rome offered one answer. In order for a person to be declared righteous by God, he or she first has to be made righteous by God. As we saw above, justification for Rome means to be “made just.” The following is something of an oversimplification of a much more complicated doctrine, but at its heart, the Roman doctrine of justification includes the idea of sanctification and renewal. The grounds of justification, the basis upon which the declaration of righteousness is made, therefore, is an infused righteousness. It is a grace that is infused, or poured, into our souls. If a person cooperates with this infused grace, he or she is renewed and sanctified. The person cooperating with grace, therefore, has an inherent righteousness. One can lose this state of grace through mortal sin. However, if this happens, the sacrament of penance is a means by which a person can be restored to a state of justification.

    According to the Reformers there were serious problems with the Roman doctrine. In the first place, the standard of God’s judgment is absolutely perfect righteousness (Matt. 5:48). He cannot require less without denying Himself and His own holiness. A person cannot be declared righteous and survive the judgment of God, therefore, on the grounds of anything less than perfection. Since the fall of Adam and Eve, however, only one man has ever lived a life of perfect righteousness, and that One is Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:15). The Reformers argued, therefore, in opposition to Rome’s idea of infusion for a doctrine of double imputation. To impute something means to reckon it legally. The doctrine of double imputation means that our sin is imputed to Christ and His righteousness is imputed to us (2 Cor. 5:21).

    It is also important to note here that for Rome, justification is by faith, but it is not by faith alone. For Rome, faith is necessary, but faith is not sufficient. Recall that for Rome, the instrumental cause of justification is baptism. The Reformers argued, on the contrary, that the sole instrument of justification is faith, and that even this faith is a gift of God. It is by grace (Rom. 3:28; 5:1; Eph. 2:8).

    The Reformed doctrine of justification is clearly expressed in the classic Reformed confessions and catechisms of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. The Westminster Larger Catechism, for example, provides a concise statement of the biblical doctrine:

    Question 70: What is justification?
    Answer: Justification is an act of God’s free grace unto sinners, in which he pardons all their sins, accepts and accounts their persons righteous in his sight; not for any thing wrought in them, or done by them, but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ, by God imputed to them, and received by faith alone.
     
    #69 atpollard, Oct 31, 2020
  10. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Jesus tells us of His other sheep, who when hearing His voice will join the flock along with them.
    Jesus says these others are His sheep but they have not yet heard Hs voice, but they will, and they will believe.
    These other sheep are His sheep and have not yet believed in Him as they have not yet heard His voice, but they will, Christ said HE MUST BRING THEM ALSO.

    Who is it that gives to Christ His children?, it is GOD the Father who gives to Christ His family.

    John 10:15-17
    New King James Version
    15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
    16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

    17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.

    Hebrews 2:13
    And again: “I will put My trust in Him.” And again: “Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
     
    #70 Scott Downey, Oct 31, 2020
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No, I understand perfectly well what the Reformers were trying to correct, it was the very same struggle Paul had with the religion of the Jews, but, Paul emphasized justification by faith in contrast to justification through works of the law, NOT justification by faith alone in contrast to justification through works of the law, The Reformers went too far.

    All you need to do to correct yourself is to cease adding that one little word 'alone' to the gospel. Don't be a parrot of error, exercise your right to private judgment.
     
    #71 kyredneck, Oct 31, 2020
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You wish that were true but it isn't
    MB
     
    #72 MB, Oct 31, 2020
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What is it that you're imagining was lost in the translation?
     
    #73 kyredneck, Nov 1, 2020
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    @atpollard

    ...my favorite 'Reformer':

    "The Bible is a plain book. It is intelligible by the people. And they have the right, and are bound to read and interpret it for themselves; so that their faith may rest on the testimony of the Scriptures, and not on that of the Church. Such is the doctrine of Protestants on this subject.

    It is not denied that the Scriptures contain many things hard to be understood; that they require diligent study; that all men need the guidance of the Holy Spirit in order to right knowledge and true faith. But it is maintained that in all things necessary to salvation they are sufficiently plain to be understood even by the unlearned.

    It is not denied that the people, learned and unlearned, in order to the proper understanding of the Scriptures, should not only compare Scripture with Scripture, and avail themselves of all the means in their power to aid them in their search after the truth, but they should also pay the greatest deference to the faith of the Church. If the Scriptures be a plain book, and the Spirit performs the functions of a teacher to all the children of God, it follows inevitably that they must agree in all essential matters in their interpretation of the Bible. And from that fact it follows that for an individual Christian to dissent from the faith of the universal Church (i.e., the body of true believers), is tantamount to dissenting from the Scriptures themselves.

    What Protestants deny on this subject is, that Christ has appointed any officer, or class of officers, in his Church to whose interpretation of the Scriptures the people are bound to submit as of final authority. What they affirm is that He has made it obligatory upon every man to search the Scriptures for himself, and determine on his own discretion what they require him to believe and to do......"

    Perspicuity of the Scriptures. The Right of Private Judgment | Monergism
     
    #74 kyredneck, Nov 1, 2020
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    What is lost in acts:13:48.It was misinterpreted. The YLT below and also Greens interlinear.
    Act 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe—as many as were appointed to life age-during;
    Simply put they were appointed to eternal life after they believed.
    MB
     
    #75 MB, Nov 1, 2020
  16. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Two wrongs don't make a right. My belief of trinity doesn't hang on scripture.
     
    #76 utilyan, Nov 1, 2020
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    We Catholics don't care where works does or does not work to "salvation" because we are not obsessed with Salvation.

    THE GOOD WORK and the ONLY GOOD WORK is Loving God and Neighbor.

    What reward, what heaven, what salvation, what gift is greater than LOVING GOD?

    All we Catholics are saying is who tricked you to look away from the bigger picture from what is most important?


    Go on and tell me what is more rewarding than Loving God? What takes a HIGHER PRIORITY?
     
    #77 utilyan, Nov 2, 2020
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Honoring God as God and not seeking to share in the GLORY that belongs to HIM alone. (see Proverbs 9:10, Proverbs 15:33, Proverbs 16:6, Isaiah 11:3)
     
    #78 atpollard, Nov 2, 2020
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are they considered to be reformed, are the Anglicans?
     
    #79 Yeshua1, Nov 2, 2020
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Saved judged by their good works for eternal rewards, or loss of them, while lost judged by them for degree of hell....
     
    #80 Yeshua1, Nov 2, 2020
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