The Mental Illness/Sin Threads

[Steadfast Fred]

Excuse me? Did you look at the top of the page?
It is the WHO or World Health Organization's official website, and a link to many of their official publications written by well qualified scientists, doctors and researchers.
It is far more reliable than the previous utube link I was given with the anecdotal testimony of "how I got free from anti-depressants."

Funny there is no doctor takes credit for the article. WHO or not.

The World Health Organization, but the way, sees no problem with prescribing medicines that have suicide listed in their side effects.

WHO does not hold the general public's good health as a prerogative.

 

[DHK]

Quoting an expository of Biblical Words is supposed to make me an expert on neurological "disorders"? Wow! I never mentioned epilepsy, Parkinson's, or strokes...so why are you assuming that I some type of medical expert with a "so-called" medical degree? I have never made ANY claims about having a degree of any kind and it is a false assumption on your part to state otherwise.

The mind is not the brain. I have yet to see someone post a picture of the MIND. If the MIND were indeed PHYSICAL, then someone should be able to post a picture of that PHYSICAL MIND. All you folks can come up with is a "brain scan" which proves nothing.

If you can't post a picture of the MIND, how can anyone know what "disease" it has? Either you prove otherwise (that the mind is physical and material), or cease from making false accusations about people claiming to be medical experts and having degrees.

The brain and the mind work together.
However I was going back to a statement that S. Fred made when he said:

There are answers in the Word of God for every *disorder* known to man, if only man would search diligently he would find them.

I then posted W.H.O.'s list of mental disorders, some of which I listed for you. When you speak as an expert on the mind, then be willing to be honest enough to admit that you don't know all there is to know about the mind, and that it encompasses disorders that have physical symptoms.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

You shouldn't be posting about things you know not of.

http://www.who.int/features/qa/55/en/index.html
You can take the Bible to people who have Parkinson's, epilepsy, stroke victims, MS patients, and just tell them, "if you confess your sin, ask forgiveness your "disorder" will go away.
That is quackery. And it is dangerous to post on the internet.

No he wouldn't because.....he is differentiating between "mental illness" and "neurological disorders"....hence the mind v. brain discussion....the thread is about mental illness, not neurological disorder, which your link distinguishes between in paragraphs 1 & 2:

Alzheimer disease and other dementias, cerebrovascular diseases including stroke, migraine and other headache disorders, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, neuroinfections, brain tumours, traumatic disorders of the nervous system such as brain trauma, and neurological disorders as a result of malnutrition.

Mental disorders, on the other hand, are "psychiatric illnesses" or diseases which appear primarily as abnormalities of thought, feeling or behaviour, producing either distress or impairment of function.

You guys are talking past each other because you are equivocating between neurological disorders and mental illnesses. DHK did you read your own link?

 

[DHK]

You guys are talking past each other because you are equivocating between neurological disorders and mental illnesses. DHK did you read your own link?

Absolutely. The key word is "disorder."

This is Fred's statement:

There are answers in the Word of God for every *disorder* known to man, if only man would search diligently he would find them.

The link I gave was simply a list of many "disorders" that originate from the brain. Call them neurological; call them mental; they still are disorders. And that is what Fred claimed that he had an answer for in the Word of God. This is a ludicrous statement.

 

[DHK]

Here is another one:

Symptoms and Treatments
of Mental Disorders

By John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
Jan. 6, 2012​

The symptom lists below have been culled and summarized from current diagnostic criteria most commonly used in the United States by mental health professionals. The lists are divided into three broad categories: adult, childhood, and personality disorders; some disorders may fall under more than one category.
Only an experienced mental health professional can make an actual diagnosis.


ADULT DISORDERS


Common Disorders

• Alcohol/Substance Abuse
• Alcohol/Substance Dependence
• Anorexia Nervosa
• Anxiety Disorders
• Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD/ADD)
• Bipolar Disorder
  • Major Depressive Episode
  • Hypomanic Episode
  • Manic Episode
  • Mixed Episode
• Bulimia Nervosa
• Depression
• Eating Disorders
• Generalized Anxiety Disorder
• Major Depressive Disorder
• Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
• Panic Disorder
• Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
• Schizophrenia
• Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
• Social Phobia (also known as Social Anxiety Disorder)

Dissociative Disorders

• Depersonalization Disorder
• Dissociative Amnesia
• Dissociative Fugue
• Dissociative Identity Disorder (MPD)
• Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (NOS)

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/

There are many others listed. This is just a partial list.
This is a site for mental illness.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Absolutely. The key word is "disorder."

This is Fred's statement:

The link I gave was simply a list of many "disorders" that originate from the brain. Call them neurological; call them mental; they still are disorders. And that is what Fred claimed that he had an answer for in the Word of God. This is a ludicrous statement.

If he did, then he is decidedly mistaken....I don't think he did. The key-word is really the qualifier "neurological".....People with alzheimer's parkinson's et. al. do not go to PSY docs....they go to neuro-surgeons/neuro-practitioners....I do not think he is equating the two....if he is....he is out of his mind. :laugh: Let's ask him.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Here is another one:

Symptoms and Treatments
of Mental Disorders

By John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
Jan. 6, 2012​

The symptom lists below have been culled and summarized from current diagnostic criteria most commonly used in the United States by mental health professionals. The lists are divided into three broad categories: adult, childhood, and personality disorders; some disorders may fall under more than one category.
Only an experienced mental health professional can make an actual diagnosis.


ADULT DISORDERS


Common Disorders

• Alcohol/Substance Abuse
• Alcohol/Substance Dependence
• Anorexia Nervosa
• Anxiety Disorders
• Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD/ADD)
• Bipolar Disorder
  • Major Depressive Episode
  • Hypomanic Episode
  • Manic Episode
  • Mixed Episode
• Bulimia Nervosa
• Depression
• Eating Disorders
• Generalized Anxiety Disorder
• Major Depressive Disorder
• Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
• Panic Disorder
• Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
• Schizophrenia
• Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
• Social Phobia (also known as Social Anxiety Disorder)

Dissociative Disorders

• Depersonalization Disorder
• Dissociative Amnesia
• Dissociative Fugue
• Dissociative Identity Disorder (MPD)
• Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (NOS)

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/

There are many others listed. This is just a partial list.
This is a site for mental illness.

And I think you will note that seizures, parkinson's, alzheimers....and the other neurological disorders you speak of are not there....You are focussing on the wrong word. The key word isn't "disorder" it's "mental" vs. "neurological"

 

[DHK]

And I think you will note that seizures, parkinson's, alzheimers....and the other neurological disorders you speak of are not there....You are focussing on the wrong word. The key word isn't "disorder" it's "mental" vs. "neurological"

Here are some of the others listed under Childhood Disorders:

• Asperger's Syndrome
• Attachment Disorder
• Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD/ADD)
• Autism
• Conduct Disorder
• Disorder of Written Expression
• Encopresis
• Enuresis
• Expressive Language Disorder
• Mathematics Disorder
• Mental Retardation
• Oppositional Defiant Disorder
• Pica
• Reading Disorder
• Rett's Disorder
• Rumination Disorder
• Selective Mutism
• Separation Anxiety Disorder
• Stereotypic Movement Disorder
• Stuttering
• Tourette's Disorder
• Transient Tic Disorder

Now, is mental retardation, and even stuttering in children caused by sinful actions and treatable by confession of sin? You are right, these are not the more obvious physical neurological disorders, but neither are they simple disorders treatable by confession of sin. Medications are quite in order in many of these ailments.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Medications are quite in order in many of these ailments.

Possibly.... with the exception of the mental retardation and stuttering that you mention. Please tell me that you would not drug a child in order to "treat" them for mental retardation or stuttering. Note: you may treat them for a disease/condition/illness which might have retardation or a stuttering tendency as one of it's symptoms but you would then be targetting something more concrete than merely low IQ as in the case of mental retardarion, or anxiousness in the case of stuttering. The retardation would not be the condition, but the symptom/result of something else.

With respect to stuttering:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stuttering/DS01027/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs

Intensive treatment generally includes exercises to reduce stuttering, opportunities to practice speaking in groups, and learning steps to reduce stress and anxiety associated with stuttering.

Although some medications have been tried for stuttering, no drugs have been proved yet to help the problem.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

For clarification, I am not equating those with Parkinsons as having mental problems. Parkinsons is a physical disease that affects the nerves, a part of the human body that surgeons are able to see and operate on.

DHK has been equating those with physical disorders as having mental disorders which is not the case.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Here is another one:

Symptoms and Treatments
of Mental Disorders

By John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
Jan. 6, 2012​

The symptom lists below have been culled and summarized from current diagnostic criteria most commonly used in the United States by mental health professionals. The lists are divided into three broad categories: adult, childhood, and personality disorders; some disorders may fall under more than one category.
Only an experienced mental health professional can make an actual diagnosis.


ADULT DISORDERS


Common Disorders

• Alcohol/Substance Abuse
• Alcohol/Substance Dependence
• Anorexia Nervosa
• Anxiety Disorders
• Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD/ADD)
• Bipolar Disorder
  • Major Depressive Episode
  • Hypomanic Episode
  • Manic Episode
  • Mixed Episode
• Bulimia Nervosa
• Depression
• Eating Disorders
• Generalized Anxiety Disorder
• Major Depressive Disorder
• Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
• Panic Disorder
• Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
• Schizophrenia
• Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
• Social Phobia (also known as Social Anxiety Disorder)

Dissociative Disorders

• Depersonalization Disorder
• Dissociative Amnesia
• Dissociative Fugue
• Dissociative Identity Disorder (MPD)
• Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (NOS)

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/

There are many others listed. This is just a partial list.
This is a site for mental illness.

The Word of God has answers to all those "disorders". But hey, why should anyone depend on the Word of God. Right? After all, we have mind altering drugs that can control those problems.

Then again, maybe not seeing the amount of outbursts in these "mental Illness" threads.

 

[mandym]

The Word of God has answers to all those "disorders". But hey, why should anyone depend on the Word of God. Right? After all, we have mind altering drugs that can control those problems.

Then again, maybe not seeing the amount of outbursts in these "mental Illness" threads.

Really? Show me the passage that discusses Schizophrenia. I would like to see chapter, verse, and clear expositional exegesis with the authors intended context kept in tact.

 

[Fred's Wife]

The brain and the mind work together.
However I was going back to a statement that S. Fred made when he said:

I then posted W.H.O.'s list of mental disorders, some of which I listed for you. When you speak as an expert on the mind, then be willing to be honest enough to admit that you don't know all there is to know about the mind, and that it encompasses disorders that have physical symptoms.

You falsely accused me of being an expert on the mind when I simply quoted what an expository of Biblical words said about the mind. The mind is NON PHYSICAL, the brain is PHYSICAL.

Are you able to explain your thoughts? Are your thoughts physical? Does your brain think? If your brain thought, you would be the prisoner of your brain.

Since all thoughts are nonphysical, no thought could have a physical source. Therefore, thoughts and ideas do not originate with the brain, a physical organ. Undeniably, the mind is not physical—yet it has a mysterious connection to the brain which science cannot fathom.

Feasting Upon Christ

We will never know all there is to know about the mind...and how the mind interfaces with the brain and I never claimed to be an expert on the mind. All I am saying is that the brain is NOT the mind...the mind being non physical and the brain being a physical organ of the body.

The WHO list of mental disorders/illnesses have NOTHING to do with neurological (Physical) diseases, such as Parkinson's disease, epilepsy, strokes, MS, or Alzheimer's disease.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Really? Show me the passage that discusses Schizophrenia. I would like to see chapter, verse, and clear expositional exegesis with the authors intended context kept in tact.

One of the biggest signs of so-called schizophrenia is extreme fear.

The Bible says Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace because he trusteth in Thee.

Of course, who would want to trust in the Lord? Right? I mean, we have drugs that can keep those voices from telling us to fear anything and everything.

Inappropriate laughter
Hostility
Speaking in a strange manner unlike themselves.

Sound more like demon possession to me.

Another sign of schzophrenia? Social Isolation or withdrawal.

Really? I guess the psychiatrists of today would have diagnosed Jesus as being schizophrenic since he often went off by Himself for solitude.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

At the foundation of your belief is the "mind is immaterial" argument. If the premise is flawed the argument will be flawed. You continually accuse everyone of rejecting the Word while you are espousing the ancient Greek philosophy of DUALISM advanced by Aristotle, Plato and Descartes. You have accused others of embracing the DSM-IV while you embrace Principia Philosophiæ. I don't get it.

I am not getting the complaint here: Are you suggesting that some form of mind/body substance Dualism is an unsound viewpoint? With respect, the inestimable Rene' Descartes was quite within reason to embrace Dualism, at least on some level as Substance Dualism is the philosophy most consistent with a Religious World-view....I think if you look into it most Modern Christian Philosophers are substance Dualists in some way or another....(nothing "ancient" about it, except that the patently obvious has been understood for millennia). The alternative is a Materialistic View not particularly consistent with Theology.

If there is no validity to Dualism then Romans 12:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Would read something to the effect of:
Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the miraculous rearrangement of various particles of brain matter, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable and perfect, will of God.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Don't be surprised if they use that in the next new Bible.

 

[Don]

The obvious error I see here is the line of reasoning that says the mind is non-physical, that thoughts are the product of the mind and not the brain.

I see this as an obvious error because if it were true, then medications would have no effect on thoughts; and yet, medication is used successfully to change thoughts and behaviors.

The obvious linkage between brain and mind is inescapable. Changes to brain structure, such as from trauma (think vehicle accidents, sports injuries, and military-related TBI) have an effect on the way the brain works, and subsequently have an effect on the way people think and behave.

The only point where I agree with the "sin" part of this conversation, is where we are referring to those that willingly partake of medications to change cognitive behaviors; i.e., makes them physically "feel good" or "helps them get through the day."

 

[jim62]

Now I know why people are going to hell, because God's people are hung up on a talk board, taking about something they don't agree on. Proverbs 26:11. As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

 

[annsni]

As soon as you can produce a picture of the alleged "material mind", you will be able to prove our argument is flawed. As of yet, you haven't.

Produce a picture of a soul.

 

[Luke2427]

The Word of God has answers to all those "disorders". But hey, why should anyone depend on the Word of God. Right? After all, we have mind altering drugs that can control those problems.

Then again, maybe not seeing the amount of outbursts in these "mental Illness" threads.

Stupidity is a mental condition, too.

The Bible really does have a cure for that one.

Perhaps you ought to look into that.