The Sovereign will of God

[Silverhair]

Ephesians 2:4-5

Yep, by Gods' grace we are saved because we believe in the Son.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And He makes alive those that believe as you can see from the rest of the post. Why do you ignore the rest of the post?

Who did he make alive?

Those who heard the word. Believed the word. And entrusted the word (eph 1: 13 - 14)

Those who hear and believe (john 5)

Just a few passages of many

 

[Aaron]

And according to calvinism Adam could not do otherwise. So God made Adam sin.

As Calvinism is merely the Gospel, it is according to the words of Christ. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Adam was made good, but not incorruptible. Until he was corrupted he could do no wrong. Once he was corrupted, he could do no good. He was corrupted by his interaction with the Devil.

But you say "free will" as if that means the freedom to sin. But it is impossible for God to lie. It is an impossibility that Christ could be corrupted. When sent to be tempted of the Devil, unlike Adam who could not, Christ prevailed.

We are taught by this that no covenant with God can be maintained by the power of the flesh, not even innocent flesh.

 

[Aaron]

You were doing fine until you added the words "in election".

No, I did fine the whole way.

 

[Aaron]

FYI they do have different meanings.

from
Indicating the point in time at which a particular process, event, or activity starts.

Indicating the date at which something was created.

before
During the period of time preceding a particular event or time.

During the period of time preceding (a particular event or time)

If I say from the beginning the Devil was a liar, or if I say the Devil was a liar before the beginning, I am saying the same thing.

 

[atpollard]

And once again the calvinist conveniently forgets that for them God determines all things that happen.

And once again, a Calvinism-hater attempts to explain what Calvinists believe and merely reveals their complete lack of understanding of what Calvinists actually teach and believe. Try the London Confession or the Westminster Confession or the Heidelberg Catechism. None of them teach what you go on to claim … that God forces sinners to sin.

The reason is simple, because the Bible does not teach that.

I really don’t care if you reject Calvinism … reject it with my blessings. All I ask is that you hate Calvinism for what it actually teaches and stop erecting straw men to vilify.

 

[atpollard]

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

How ironic that you point to Paul as a “poster child” for God not forcing anyone to do anything after the Road to Damascus. I must have missed the part of the story where God asked Paul if he wanted to “accept or reject” His offer.

 

[Silverhair]

As Calvinism is merely the Gospel, it is according to the words of Christ. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Adam was made good, but not incorruptible. Until he was corrupted he could do no wrong. Once he was corrupted, he could do no good. He was corrupted by his interaction with the Devil.

But you say "free will" as if that means the freedom to sin. But it is impossible for God to lie. It is an impossibility that Christ could be corrupted. When sent to be tempted of the Devil, unlike Adam who could not, Christ prevailed.

We are taught by this that no covenant with God can be maintained by the power of the flesh, not even innocent flesh.

You make the false claim that calvinism is the gospel so your whole comment is to be disregarded.

 

[Silverhair]

And once again, a Calvinism-hater attempts to explain what Calvinists believe and merely reveals their complete lack of understanding of what Calvinists actually teach and believe. Try the London Confession or the Westminster Confession or the Heidelberg Catechism. None of them teach what you go on to claim … that God forces sinners to sin.

The reason is simple, because the Bible does not teach that.

I really don’t care if you reject Calvinism … reject it with my blessings. All I ask is that you hate Calvinism for what it actually teaches and stop erecting straw men to vilify.

I do not hate calvinists I just know that they are misled in their understanding of scripture. This has been pointed out to you many many times but you just ignore scripture and continue to hold to your man-made philosophy.

 

[Silverhair]

How ironic that you point to Paul as a “poster child” for God not forcing anyone to do anything after the Road to Damascus. I must have missed the part of the story where God asked Paul if he wanted to “accept or reject” His offer.

Paul was chosen for a specific task and you want to extrapolate that to mean that all people are chosen. Sorry the bible does not agree with your view but keep trying to support it.

 

[atpollard]

I do not hate calvinists I just know that they are misled in their understanding of scripture. This has been pointed out to you many many times but you just ignore scripture and continue to hold to your man-made philosophy.

Calvinism STILL does not teach that God makes people sin.

You failed to address the actual point of my post and doubled down on your ‘strawman’ false opinions of what Calvinism teaches.

Here is the ‘false teaching’ (as you call it) that Calvinists believe about why people sin …

Romans 1:18-32 [NASB95]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
​

God IS Sovereign, but God IS NOT the author of sin.

 

[atpollard]

Paul was chosen for a specific task and you want to extrapolate that to mean that all people are chosen. Sorry the bible does not agree with your view but keep trying to support it.

Dude, YOU picked Paul as YOUR example. All I did was point out the irony of YOUR choice.

If I wanted to prove that all saved people are chosen, I would have pointed to John 6:44 (“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day”) or Romans 11:7 (“What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened.”) or Colossians 3:12 (“So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness,humility, gentleness and patience;”) or 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.”) … the list goes on and on (but you ignore all of it).

 

[Silverhair]

Calvinism STILL does not teach that God makes people sin.

You failed to address the actual point of my post and doubled down on your ‘strawman’ false opinions of what Calvinism teaches.

Here is the ‘false teaching’ (as you call it) that Calvinists believe about why people sin …

Romans 1:18-32 [NASB95]
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
​

God IS Sovereign, but God IS NOT the author of sin.

"God IS Sovereign, but God IS NOT the author of sin" Then you will have to change the way you look at the bible because the way you do now that is the only option that is there.
I have gone around this tree a number of times with calvinists, you claim to be biblical and then you misread the scriptures. I am sorry that you struggle so much with the scriptures but perhaps more time spent trusting the text of the bible and less trusting in your man-made theology will help.

 

[Silverhair]

Dude, YOU picked Paul as YOUR example. All I did was point out the irony of YOUR choice.

If I wanted to prove that all saved people are chosen, I would have pointed to John 6:44 (“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day”) or Romans 11:7 (“What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened.”) or Colossians 3:12 (“So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness,humility, gentleness and patience;”) or 2 Thessalonians 2:13 (“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.”) … the list goes on and on (but you ignore all of it).

Dude, you need to start looking at the context before you claim the bible supports your errant view.
I am surprised that so many people are taken in by this philosophy. But that is your choice, well actually it's not is it, as you have no free will except to sin so you could not have done anything good. Man you guys really do have a low view of scripture and more than that a low view of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

sadly, as usual another calvinist debate that digresses..

its sad we can not just look at the word and discuss it without a particular view in mind.

 

[JesusFan]

Dude, you need to start looking at the context before you claim the bible supports your errant view.
I am surprised that so many people are taken in by this philosophy. But that is your choice, well actually it's not is it, as you have no free will except to sin so you could not have done anything good. Man you guys really do have a low view of scripture and more than that a low view of God.

Jesus stated that all of us were slaves to sin until saved and set free by Him, was he right or wrong?

 

[37818]

Jesus stated that all of us were slaves to sin until saved and set free by Him, was he right or wrong?

Where did Jesus state all of us to be slaves to sin?

 

[Marooncat79]

The Bible

25 Bible Verses About Slaves to Sin (ESV) - RANKED

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the issue here is faith

calvinists seem to think faith is a work. something we conjure up. or a good deed

Faith is not a work. it is not an action, it is nothing but a confidence in another person. an object or in self.

a person who trusts self has faith in self. Many christians even fall under this category.

A person who was brought to their knees like the tax collector repented and placed his or her faith in above. the only thing left. out of deseration.

Its not a good deed.

the tax collector did not earn his salvation because he repented and fell on his face..

he fell on his face because he realised there was NOTHING he could do. and out of despiration cried out.

 

[Marooncat79]

The origin of our faith is the Issue

faith is a gift of God