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The Westminster Confession of Faith Blasphemy

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Calvinism makes God to be unjust and the author of sins! Calvinism is taken from the teachings of Augustine, who taught a heretical Atonement of Jesus Christ, that He paid a ransom to the devil!!!
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I take it you support the theology of Pelagius since you so disdain Augustine.
Tell us what person or group you approved of during the time of Augustine.
Since I have only read quotes from Augustine, Luther, or Calvin, I can't help you, but you seem to be a scholar on these persons and their writings. I assume, therefore, that you are extensively read in all those who opposed these Christians. Please share the ideas of Pelagius that you view as correct. Or, perhaps all Christians from the Apostles onward have had it wrong while you alone are correct. Please tell us if there are any other humans of antiquity that got it right. I await your scholarly response.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
I take it you support the theology of Pelagius since you so disdain Augustine.
Tell us what person or group you approved of during the time of Augustine.
Since I have only read quotes from Augustine, Luther, or Calvin, I can't help you, but you seem to be a scholar on these persons and their writings. I assume, therefore, that you are extensively read in all those who opposed these Christians. Please share the ideas of Pelagius that you view as correct. Or, perhaps all Christians from the Apostles onward have had it wrong while you alone are correct. Please tell us if there are any other humans of antiquity that got it right. I await your scholarly response.
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I get my theology from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible, and not any of the early Church Fathers, or any theologians!
 
Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
SavedByGrace said:
Really? so "God decided/ordained/decreed that the Fall should happen", then He is grieved because of the sin in the world, as we read in places like Genesis 6? This makes God double-minded!
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SavedByGrace you didn't engage with my post, rather you quoted only part of it. I would appreciate it if you engaged with what I posted.Thank you. ( next post i shall try and answer the Genesis 6 question)


Q) Did God know that before creation that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit and in doing so all creation would Fall?
A) Yes. If not then God is no God at all. God would not be all knowing (omniscience).

Q) Was God able to to prevent the Fall from happening?
A) Yes. If not then God is no God at all. God would not be all powerful (omnipotence), as something outside of Him could prevent God to act upon His will.

Q) Did the Fall happen?
A) Yes.

God knew that the fall would come to pass and decided not to prevent it but instead allowed it to happen. Therefore, God allowed/decided/ordained/decreed that the Fall should happen.


Do you believe that the fall happen outside God's power and/or God's knowledge? If not, how can you disagree with the bolded portion?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Mikey said:
SavedByGrace you didn't engage with my post, rather you quoted only part of it. I would appreciate it if you engaged with what I posted.Thank you. ( next post i shall try and answer the Genesis 6 question)


Q) Did God know that before creation that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit and in doing so all creation would Fall?
A) Yes. If not then God is no God at all. God would not be all knowing (omniscience).

Q) Was God able to to prevent the Fall from happening?
A) Yes. If not then God is no God at all. God would not be all powerful (omnipotence), as something outside of Him could prevent God to act upon His will.

Q) Did the Fall happen?
A) Yes.

God knew that the fall would come to pass and decided not to prevent it but instead allowed it to happen. Therefore, God allowed/decided/ordained/decreed that the Fall should happen.


Do you believe that the fall happen outside God's power and/or God's knowledge? If not, how can you disagree with the bolded portion?
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God is Almighty and all-knowing, and without any limits, Who does as He pleases, to whom He pleases and whenever He pleases. He is accountable to no one for His Actions, and is Absolutely Sovereign. That said, how does His Knowing an Power, have anything to do what He Permits? God has in His Infinite Wisdom, allowed certain things to take place, like sin in the world, the existence of the devil and evil, etc, etc. Why He has done so, the Bible does not tell us, like the origin of evil. Just because God may allow something, like the fall of Adam and Eve, this cannot mean that He so "ordained" this for His Glory, which is basically saying that God is the author of Sins.
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
God is Almighty and all-knowing, and without any limits, Who does as He pleases, to whom He pleases and whenever He pleases. He is accountable to no one for His Actions, and is Absolutely Sovereign. That said, how does His Knowing an Power, have anything to do what He Permits? God has in His Infinite Wisdom, allowed certain things to take place, like sin in the world, the existence of the devil and evil, etc, etc. Why He has done so, the Bible does not tell us, like the origin of evil. Just because God may allow something, like the fall of Adam and Eve, this cannot mean that He so "ordained" this for His Glory, which is basically saying that God is the author of Sins
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I agree with that and I would say that most Calvinists do not think God is the author of sin even though he allowed it to happen.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
DaveXR650 said:
I agree with that and I would say that most Calvinists do not think God is the author of sin even though he allowed it to happen.
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the WCF is Reformed/Calvinistic, and as I have quoted from it in the OP, it clearly does make God not only the author of sin, but also takes pleasure in it and ordains/plans it for His Glory! These words are NUTS!
 
Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
SavedByGrace said:
Really? so "God decided/ordained/decreed that the Fall should happen", then He is grieved because of the sin in the world, as we read in places like Genesis 6? This makes God double-minded!
Click to expand...

"The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled." Genesis 6:5-6 NIV

This is an instance of what is called anthropomorphism, an expression descriptive of human emotion or action ascribed to God. There can, no more be any uneasiness in his mind than a change in it; for God is a simple Being, uncompounded, and not subject to any passions and affections. This is said to observe his great hatred to sin, and abhorrence of it.

This is what i understand meaning of Genesis 6:5-6.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Mikey said:
his great hatred to sin, and abhorrence of it.
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so how can God be Pleased with the fall, and to order their (Adam/Eve) sin to his own glory? This is a moral impossibility. You need to deal with this statement from the Bible
 
DaveXR650

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
the WCF is Reformed/Calvinistic, and as I have quoted from it in the OP, it clearly does make God not only the author of sin, but also takes pleasure in it and ordains/plans it for His Glory! These words are NUTS!
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WCF 3.1 says directly that "God is not the author of sin". You certainly are allowed to feel that way about it but you are misrepresenting the confession to claim that that is what it says when it does not. You started this thread and claimed the WCF was blasphemy. I you are going to start a thread like that you should at least have the decency to go by what the WCF says. Now you go back and look at that. If I'm wrong show me but if I'm right then apologize.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
DaveXR650 said:
WCF 3.1 says directly that "God is not the author of sin". You certainly are allowed to feel that way about it but you are misrepresenting the confession to claim that that is what it says when it does not. You started this thread and claimed the WCF was blasphemy. I you are going to start a thread like that you should at least have the decency to go by what the WCF says. Now you go back and look at that. If I'm wrong show me but if I'm right then apologize.
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They can make this claim, but it does not agree with their own words I have quoted in the OP, "he planned to order their sin to his own glory”. It is very easy to understand if you can grasp the meaning of words in the English language!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
They can make this claim, but it does not agree with their own words I have quoted in the OP, "he planned to order their sin to his own glory”. It is very easy to understand if you can grasp the meaning of words in the English language!
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How about the Hebrew and Greek meanings though?
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
I get my theology from the 66 Books of the Holy Bible, and not any of the early Church Fathers, or any theologians!
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Yet, you tell us that Augustine and Calvin got it horribly wrong. If you only read the Bible then how would you know this?
You are either not being truthful about your knowledge of Augustine, Calvin, or any other Christian beside yourself, or you are not being truthful about only reading the Bible.
What is easy to discern is that you think very highly of yourself and your personal viewpoint, while dismissing all of Christendom as beneath you and even blasphemous when you do leave your bubble and read their viewpoints.

sbc, do you see a pattern? I certainly see one.
 
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