true or false: god CANNOT save Anyone Unless You Permit Him Too!

[webdog]

Ah no it isnt.....its a frustration .....there is a difference. (So before I become agitated & start turning nasty)

Frustration at what? If you maintain faith is a gift...did God give defective gifts to those He scolded (which makes no sense if He gave the gift). Like I said, its a fair question that is answerable.

 

[preacher4truth]

Good post Rippon....unless he is describing Dagon.....


Here is a helpless god......that is not the God of the scripture however.

Good posts , DR.Bob, Preacher for truth, EWF.:thumbs:


Allan, you said in your analogy......the man in the water "was drowning"
You error here. The man in the water drowned already...as in dead man floating.....Jesus gives him life...then he does what the Spirit works in him:thumbsup:

Preacher for truth....well said;

Iconoclast,

Thanks for the kind words. May Gods Spirit continue to exposit the Word to your heart.

- Blessings

 

[Rippon]

God is helpless only because He chooses to be.

The helpless god is your on-going theme. Do the elders at your church realize what you espouse?

God has the power and ability to intervene and force anyone to do anything He chooses.

But the point is that God doesn't force anyone --even in Calvinist soteriology which you continually malign. The Lord melts the hearts of those of His choosing. He softens thse hearts of His elect ones. He hardens those of the reprobate.No one comes kicking,screaming,and struggling as the Arminian C.S.Lewis described his conversion.

 

[gloopey1]

The helpless god is your on-going theme. Do the elders at your church realize what you espouse?



But the point is that God doesn't force anyone --even in Calvinist soteriology which you continually malign. The Lord melts the hearts of those of His choosing. He softens thse hearts of His elect ones. He hardens those of the reprobate.No one comes kicking,screaming,and struggling as the Arminian C.S.Lewis described his conversion.

But would not this "melting of the heart" also be forced? If men have no choice in the matter, then even their change of heart was forced. No choice = forced to do something against one's will.

 

[MB]

You have the final say in your eternal state/situation?

yes or No?

Scripture(s) Please!

It isn't a matter of cannot, for God, it is a matter of will not. God will not save anyone who doesn't surrender or submit to His will. Your only decision is a surrender, not an ok to save you. Conviction drives men to the point of surrender. It's an offer of Salvation not a demand. God calls or draws men and women to Him self. He convinces them of the gospel and convicts them of there sin. The conviction makes some men see their own wickedness and the convincing shows men a way out of their being haunted by their convictions. Conviction gives men the desire they need to follow after Christ. To want righteousness rather than doom.
MB

 

[Cypress]

The helpless god is your on-going theme. Do the elders at your church realize what you espouse?



But the point is that God doesn't force anyone --even in Calvinist soteriology which you continually malign. The Lord melts the hearts of those of His choosing. He softens thse hearts of His elect ones. He hardens those of the reprobate.No one comes kicking,screaming,and struggling as the Arminian C.S.Lewis described his conversion.

Rippon, why do you feel justified calling Lewis a liar......He was there at his conversion and we most certainly were not. Does your interpretation of scripture demand that he was lying? I might point out that Pauls conversion does not show much softening imo! :love2::love2:

 

[Alive in Christ]

convicted1 posted.....

If this is addressed to me, I have presented many scriptures that showed that is US who MUST REPENT of OUR sins, and that God WILL NOT REPENT for us!! Not yelling, just for emphasis only.

The way the other side(DoG) "doles" it out, it is nothing more than a glorified "shotgun wedding". A wedding involves two willing people. When God saves us, we are then married to Jesus, and are the Lamb's wife, that John saw coming down from heaven as a bride adorned for Her Husband.

And as far as words such as "allow", "permission"/"permit", they have a negative connotation to them. God doesn't come to us and say, "Excuse Me, but if it's okay with you, I'd like to save your soul. Is this okay with you??" No one from either side of this debate will concur with this either. Grace is "extended" to all, and those who WILLINGLY accept it, will be saved. Those who REJECT it, will die lost. Its that cut and dried.

Excellant post brother. You have a good grasp on the proper view of these issues, as well as the great errors and problems that exist in calvinism.

EWF...you responded to convicted's post with...

PLEASE, dont presume to understand Calvinism, you do a lousy job of it.

Actually, he understands calvinism much MUCH more accuretly that you do.

AiC

 

[quantumfaith]

Rippon, why do you feel justified calling Lewis a liar......He was there at his conversion and we most certainly were not. Does your interpretation of scripture demand that he was lying? I might point out that Pauls conversion does not show much softening imo! :love2::love2:

:thumbsup:

Thank You, I am confident that Rippon knows exactly what Robert means, he simply enjoys leveling the charge of a "helpless god", knowing full well that no one on this board intends God as helpless in the way he attempts to imply.

 

[convicted1]

convicted1 posted.....



Excellant post brother. You have a good grasp on the proper view of these issues, as well as the great errors and problems that exist in calvinism.

EWF...you responded to convicted's post with...



Actually, he understands calvinism much MUCH more accuretly that you do.

AiC

Thank you AiC for these kinds words, but there may be some things in Calvinism that I have portrayed wrong. If I have, I want to apologize to my DoG Brethern. I may disagree with y'all, but I do so in love!! I pray that y'all disagree with me in the same manner.

 

[Rippon]

Rippon, why do you feel justified calling Lewis a liar......He was there at his conversion and we most certainly were not. Does your interpretation of scripture demand that he was lying?

I did not call Lewis a liar. That would be a lie on your part.

I find it interesting that one of the most famous Arminians would describe his conversion in the way he did. Non-Cals here love to characterize "the God of the Calvinists" as forcing folks into salvation. Yet one of your own says ihis conversion involved God forcing him into it. LOL!

 

[Rippon]

:thumbsup:

Thank You, I am confident that Rippon knows exactly what Robert means, he simply enjoys leveling the charge of a "helpless god", knowing full well that no one on this board intends God as helpless in the way he attempts to imply.

What particular nuance did Robert attempt regarding "the helpless god"? Robert used the phraseology. Are you trying to be his defense attorney? You sound like Bill Clinton trying to squirm away by saying :"It depends on what the word is is." So are you suggesting that God is helpless,but not the way helpless is normally defined?

 

[Palatka51]

You have the final say in your eternal state/situation?

yes or No?

Scripture(s) Please!

You must turn the knob to your heart and let Him in. The turning of that knob is repentance. He never barges in unannounced. When He starts knocking it is incessant until you respond.

Revelation 3:20
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[preacher4truth]

You must turn the knob to your heart and let Him in. The turning of that knob is repentance. He never barges in unannounced. When He starts knocking it is incessant until you respond.

Revelation 3:20
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Repentance is God's gift.

Rev. 3:20 used by application, not true interpretation, it doesn't refer to salvation.

 

[Robert Snow]

Repentance is God's gift.

And it must be accepted and utilized to be effective.

 

[preacher4truth]

He does all of it. You can't effect it nor utilize except by His power in you.

Without Him you can do...

 

[Old Union Brother]

He does all of it. You can't effect it nor utilize except by His power in you.

Without Him you can do...

:applause: (Heb 12:2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

:applause: (Heb 12:2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Amen brother.

 

[Luke2427]

Amen brother.

I second that!

 

[Allan]

Amen brother.

Wow.. you guys must be suddenly turned Arminian cause they Amen that same verse too. Wonder of Wonders.. Cals turned Arminian on the BB :laugh: :thumbs:

 

[Cypress]

I did not call Lewis a liar. That would be a lie on your part.

I find it interesting that one of the most famous Arminians would describe his conversion in the way he did. Non-Cals here love to characterize "the God of the Calvinists" as forcing folks into salvation. Yet one of your own says ihis conversion involved God forcing him into it. LOL!

Rippon, here is exactly what you posted "No one comes kicking,screaming,and struggling as the Arminian C.S.Lewis described his conversion." I interpret this sentence to mean that you do not believe Lewis describing his own conversion.... If you do not believe him, then you are calling him a liar. You can call me one whenever you like if it makes you feel better, and I will even admit to it if you can show me when I did it like I have now pointed out to you twice. If there is another more accurate meaning to the sentence I quoted you on, I am willing to hear it. And I most certainly have lied many times to my shame and welcome correction when warranted although painful.