Under Grace or Under Law?

[DHK]

To say it is a monstrous insult and slap in the face of God when we say that the tree has revealed its true nature is wrong. Au Contrair, it is a monstrous insult and slap in the face of God to say that no matter what sin one commits they are assured of missing hell. One who says you can sin and still be in heaven is setting oneself up as God.

Here is what I get from you (and possibly from Claudia and Brother Bob)
This would be a typical prayer coming from your lips:

Dear Jesus,
I know that you have died for my sins, and paid the penalty for my sins at the cross. I realize that you shed your blood for me. And I am so thankful for what you accomplished for me at the cross. But Lord it was not good enough for me. I want a piece of the action too. Even though in Eph.2:8,9 Paul told us that salvation is all of grace so that we couldn't boast about it, I want to boast about my salvation in heaven. So I am putting one condition on my salvation. You see, you died for all my sins, except one. That last sin, just before I die, you didn't have enough blood to cover that one Lord. I have to pay for that one myself. Now I am willing to take the consequences. If I don't confess that one I am willing to go to Hell. But on that one sin Lord, it is I who must confess the sin. I must do that work to enter into heaven. That is the one work that I must do. Your sacrifice on the cross can't cover that last sin. I must pay the penalty for it myself. It must be confessed by me. It is my work. In that way, I will be able to boast a bit in heaven, and say to others: See how I paid for my own salvation. I helped Jesus. He didn't pay the entire sacrifice Himself. I had to help him along. I paid for the last sin. He couldn't do it. See how great I am. Thank you Jesus for this opportunity for helping you in your great work of salvation,

In His name,
Diggin

That is your prayer isn't it?
You have a sallvation by works, and that is a slap in the face of Jesus. You take away from the sacrificial work of Christ which he paid for your sins. In fact you deny it.

 

[Brother Bob]

I like that prayer a lot better than this one by you.

Dear Lord;
Thanks for dying for my sins now excuse me the neighbor has a nice looking wife and I will be busy for a while but thanks again.
DHK

 

[DHK]

HP: For all of you nay sayers out there that have stated (or thought)in the past that it is just not so, here DHK demonstrates it in plain English. I have had more than one Calvinist minister tell me that if I believed that one must repent in order to be saved I believe in salvation by works. I have had some say that they had never heard anyone say it like that. Well, now you have.

But I didn't say what you are saying did I?
Repentance is indeed necessary. I said that. I told diggin:
"If you study the Bible you will find that repentance is included in the word "believing" or "faith." In other words, we repent when we believe.
Why do you take my words out of context and say the opposite of what I believe. Are you prone to lie.

 

[DHK]

I like that prayer a lot better than this one by you.

Dear Lord;
Thanks for dying for my sins now excuse me the neighbor has a nice looking wife and I will be busy for a while but thanks again.
DHK

Bob, what you wrote does not reflect my theology. What I wrote does indeed demonstrate your theology.

 

[Claudia_T]

What is the purpose of your thread?

Me? I dont even know what you are talking about... why not just participate in it or go to another one?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, what you wrote does not reflect my theology. What I wrote does indeed demonstrate your theology.
__________________
DHK

The tense in that verse is present continuous. It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins. However if he keeps on sinning, if he keeps on in that lifestyle of adultery, it is certain that he is not born again. A Christian does not continue in a lifestyle of sin. He does not keep on sinning or keep in a pattern of sinning. That is what the verse means. It does not mean that a person must be completely free from sin. That would be a contradition of 1John 1:8,10, and would be making Christ a liar.
__________________
DHK

According to your own words it is your theology.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Once a thread degenerates to putting words in one another's mouth, it's time for a lock.

 

[Claudia_T]

Here is what I get from you (and possibly from Claudia and Brother Bob)
This would be a typical prayer coming from your lips:

Dear Jesus,
I know that you have died for my sins, and paid the penalty for my sins at the cross. I realize that you shed your blood for me. And I am so thankful for what you accomplished for me at the cross. But Lord it was not good enough for me. I want a piece of the action too. Even though in Eph.2:8,9 Paul told us that salvation is all of grace so that we couldn't boast about it, I want to boast about my salvation in heaven. So I am putting one condition on my salvation. You see, you died for all my sins, except one. That last sin, just before I die, you didn't have enough blood to cover that one Lord. I have to pay for that one myself. Now I am willing to take the consequences. If I don't confess that one I am willing to go to Hell. But on that one sin Lord, it is I who must confess the sin. I must do that work to enter into heaven. That is the one work that I must do. Your sacrifice on the cross can't cover that last sin. I must pay the penalty for it myself. It must be confessed by me. It is my work. In that way, I will be able to boast a bit in heaven, and say to others: See how I paid for my own salvation. I helped Jesus. He didn't pay the entire sacrifice Himself. I had to help him along. I paid for the last sin. He couldn't do it. See how great I am. Thank you Jesus for this opportunity for helping you in your great work of salvation,

In His name,
Diggin

That is your prayer isn't it?
You have a sallvation by works, and that is a slap in the face of Jesus. You take away from the sacrificial work of Christ which he paid for your sins. In fact you deny it.

actually I can see how you would think that

 

[Claudia_T]

I like that prayer a lot better than this one by you.

Dear Lord;
Thanks for dying for my sins now excuse me the neighbor has a nice looking wife and I will be busy for a while but thanks again.
DHK

thats pretty funny

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Here is what I get from you (and possibly from Claudia and Brother Bob)
This would be a typical prayer coming from your lips:

Dear Jesus,
I know that you have died for my sins, and paid the penalty for my sins at the cross. I realize that you shed your blood for me. And I am so thankful for what you accomplished for me at the cross. But Lord it was not good enough for me. I want a piece of the action too. Even though in Eph.2:8,9 Paul told us that salvation is all of grace so that we couldn't boast about it, I want to boast about my salvation in heaven. So I am putting one condition on my salvation. You see, you died for all my sins, except one. That last sin, just before I die, you didn't have enough blood to cover that one Lord. I have to pay for that one myself. Now I am willing to take the consequences. If I don't confess that one I am willing to go to Hell. But on that one sin Lord, it is I who must confess the sin. I must do that work to enter into heaven. That is the one work that I must do. Your sacrifice on the cross can't cover that last sin. I must pay the penalty for it myself. It must be confessed by me. It is my work. In that way, I will be able to boast a bit in heaven, and say to others: See how I paid for my own salvation. I helped Jesus. He didn't pay the entire sacrifice Himself. I had to help him along. I paid for the last sin. He couldn't do it. See how great I am. Thank you Jesus for this opportunity for helping you in your great work of salvation,

In His name,
Diggin

That is your prayer isn't it?
You have a sallvation by works, and that is a slap in the face of Jesus. You take away from the sacrificial work of Christ which he paid for your sins. In fact you deny it.

It is a shame you cannot see the light for the scales over your eyes.

When I pray , I thank God for His goodness, His love, His mercy, His Son, His Holy Spirit. I think Him for showing me in His Word the vile creature that not just I, but all are. I ask Him to help me to walk before Him in a manner pleasing to Him. I ask Him if there is sin in my life to bring it to my attention that I may confess it and give it over to Him. I ask all in Christ's Name.

David said 'Thy Word I have hid in mine heart that I might not sin against Thee.'

Are we obedient to the Word? Are we hiding that word in our hearts? or are we just picking and choosing which word makes us feel comfortable?

If the word you have in your heart is giving such a dim light to your path that you do not see that God hates all workers of iniquity (He cannot hate His chlidren, for He cannot deny Himself), then you better change your wick. You are being led by your own flesh instead of the Word of God.

 

[Claudia_T]

actually you know, these "Encounter Group" things tell you to repeat back to the other person what you THINK they are saying so that they can then CORRECT what you are misunderstanding about what they have said.

THE KEY is that when someone then says NO you misunderstand I DO NOT have that view you think I have... well yer supposed to LISTEN till you understand correctly.

 

[DHK]

The tense in that verse is present continuous. It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins. However if he keeps on sinning, if he keeps on in that lifestyle of adultery, it is certain that he is not born again. A Christian does not continue in a lifestyle of sin. He does not keep on sinning or keep in a pattern of sinning. That is what the verse means. It does not mean that a person must be completely free from sin. That would be a contradition of 1John 1:8,10, and would be making Christ a liar.
__________________
DHK

According to your own words it is your theology.

I was explaining a verse to you Bob; one that you kept on asking my view.
What does it mean when the Bible says:
"Whosoever is born again cannot commit sin"
The above is my explanation to that question.
To use that explanation and formulate a prayer from it is like a lie in itself. It is misconstruing what I have said. You are using my words against me. You are the one that asked for the explanation. I gave you an example; an illustration. I could have used any sin. Perhaps I should have used the sin of lying. Now should you die of a heart attack right now (God forbid that that would happen), by your own admission you would not go to heaven.

The fact is that all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. To say otherwise is to misconstrue the sacrifice of Christ and attribute to His Work a salvation that is woks based because his blood was not sufficient to cover all our sins.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I already understand what DHK is saying. He is giving license to sin. The Word of God says 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh'.

What is in DHK's heart has been shown. The tree has revealed its true nature. DHK has said there is nothing wrong with holding onto sin.

 

[DHK]

It is a shame you cannot see the light for the scales over your eyes.

When I pray , I thank God for His goodness, His love, His mercy, His Son, His Holy Spirit. I think Him for showing me in His Word the vile creature that not just I, but all are. I ask Him to help me to walk before Him in a manner pleasing to Him. I ask Him if there is sin in my life to bring it to my attention that I may confess it and give it over to Him. I ask all in Christ's Name.

David said 'Thy Word I have hid in mine heart that I might not sin against Thee.'

Are we obedient to the Word? Are we hiding that word in our hearts? or are we just picking and choosing which word makes us feel comfortable?

If the word you have in your heart is giving such a dim light to your path that you do not see that God hates all workers of iniquity (He cannot hate His chlidren, for He cannot deny Himself), then you better change your wick. You are being led by your own flesh instead of the Word of God.

I have no problem with what you say.
But then you add on that doctrine: If I die with unconfessed sin I will go to Hell. That is what Bob believes and you back him up.
If that is true then the blood of Christ was not sufficient to pay the penalty for your sins, and you have trodden under foot his blood.

 

[DHK]

I already understand what DHK is saying. He is giving license to sin. The Word of God says 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh'.

What is in DHK's heart has been shown. The tree has revealed its true nature. DHK has said there is nothing wrong with holding onto sin.

No, you are dead wrong. The above is just plain slander.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I already understand what DHK is saying. He is giving license to sin. The Word of God says 'out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh'.

What is in DHK's heart has been shown. The tree has revealed its true nature. DHK has said there is nothing wrong with holding onto sin.

That is a ghastly misrepresentation. Repent. Seriously.

 

[Claudia_T]

I was explaining a verse to you Bob; one that you kept on asking my view.
What does it mean when the Bible says:
"Whosoever is born again cannot commit sin"
The above is my explanation to that question.
To use that explanation and formulate a prayer from it is like a lie in itself. It is misconstruing what I have said. You are using my words against me. You are the one that asked for the explanation. I gave you an example; an illustration. I could have used any sin. Perhaps I should have used the sin of lying. Now should you die of a heart attack right now (God forbid that that would happen), by your own admission you would not go to heaven.

The fact is that all our sins are covered by the blood of Christ. To say otherwise is to misconstrue the sacrifice of Christ and attribute to His Work a salvation that is woks based because his blood was not sufficient to cover all our sins.

I would say its more like conditional instead of works based.

 

[Brother Bob]

I didn't say those words as my theology DHK, you did. You say I am using your words against you but it by our words you know us. A man word is his bond and you use mine against me all the time. You used worse than that against me but I am trying to move on and debate you. I don't believe as you do that you can continue in those kinds of sin and be saved. To me it is like walking on the blood of our Lord. If you will think you will see that what you say is come and be saved and you can do whatever you want and never lose your salvation. Well, if anyone comes with that attitude they will never get in.

 

[Claudia_T]

Im glad I dont accuse people of slander here who misrepresent what I believe, if I did, I'd have to be hiring me a team of lawyers or something.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

No, you are dead wrong. The above is just plain slander.

Your above post about my prayers was slander.