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What Is Free Will?

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J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
One of the classic arguments against election and predestination is the argument that we have free will and we all have the opportunity to come to God. But is that really true? This depends. It depends on what you mean by free will. Let’s look at what the Bible says about who will seek God.

First, let’s talk about free will. What is it? If by free will you mean every man is free to choose what he desires then, yes, I agree, there is free will. But if you mean that we have an equal choice with no influence or determiners then no, we do not have free will.

Who Seeks God?
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ONLY God has absolute free will, and our free wills are limited by our sin natures!
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
So by your logic if a person does not hear directly from the Father they can not be saved. So when did you have this conversation with God?
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Reading the letter to the Romans, Silverhair, reading the letter to the Romans.
The texts have been shared with you. It seems you ignore them.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
You are not listening.
World means world.
But, that word is not the hinge word upon which the passage swings. Instead the hinge word is "whosoever" believes. The context, both before and after shows that not all in the world will believe.
There are many reasons why, but two are prominent.
1) People don't believe because no one has shared the gospel, thus they have not heard the word of God.
2) Having heard the word of God, people consider it utter foolishness and cannot believe.
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Actually is not that they cannot believe, it is that they will not believe. That is free will. But I understand your choice of words because that is calvinism. If a person is not Unconditional Elected, as one of those who are included in that Limited Atonement, then they will not be dragged by that Irresistible Grace so they cannot believe.

AustinC said:
How does a person believe?
They hear God speak to them when God chooses to make them alive by virtue of the Holy Spirit's quickening. (Ephesians 2:4-5)
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I would say you r choice of verse to explain how a person comes to believe but then as a calvinist you do want to overlook some passages don't you. These ones give a better picture of what happens
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Notice in both they have to hear and believe and that answers the question we see in Acts.
Act_16:30 ... "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

The bible has the answers if you let the bible be the answer.
 
C

Campion

Member
Silverhair said:
Actually is not that they cannot believe, it is that they will not believe. That is free will. But I understand your choice of words because that is calvinism. If a person is not Unconditional Elected, as one of those who are included in that Limited Atonement, then they will not be dragged by that Irresistible Grace so they cannot believe.



I would say you r choice of verse to explain how a person comes to believe but then as a calvinist you do want to overlook some passages don't you. These ones give a better picture of what happens
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Notice in both they have to hear and believe and that answers the question we see in Acts.
Act_16:30 ... "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

The bible has the answers if you let the bible be the answer.
Click to expand...

Calvinist answer to that question...

upload_2022-3-24_11-11-47.jpeg
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Reading the letter to the Romans, Silverhair, reading the letter to the Romans.
The texts have been shared with you. It seems you ignore them.
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Well if you say that reading Romans is what brought you to Christ Jesus then why do you deny the same thing to others? You have this strange idea that God only loves a select group and you hope that you are part of that group.

I did not need to read Romans, I just needed to read and believe this:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What is Free will? Humans are free to will within the constraints God provides. Thus the actual reality is "Limited will" and not "free will." Thus the use of the obviously bogus term is a straw man construct of exhaustive determinists.

What is Limited will? The first limit of our finite mind is we are limited to our knowledge and imagination. Thus I can will to have a working knowledge of Calculus, but that desire is unfulfilled. Or I can will to derive the correct understanding of any passage in God's word, but I see through a glass darkly and thus that desire is unfulfilled.

Could I seek God if I did not know God existed? Nope, but I might seek a non-god of my own invention.

Could I reject in all or in part God's revelation, and seek a god of my own creation? Yes

Thus our capacity to will to be saved is limited just as scripture describes, which means our salvation does not depend upon our willing or doing stuff, but upon God alone. Romans 9:16
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Well if you say that reading Romans is what brought you to Christ Jesus then why do you deny the same thing to others? You have this strange idea that God only loves a select group and you hope that you are part of that group.

I did not need to read Romans, I just needed to read and believe this:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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LOL, you may be the greatest contortionist I have ever met, Silverhair.
Do you ever tire of reducing scripture to your own personal sound bytes with no regard for the entirety of scripture?

As I mentioned elsewhere, your little collection of verses hinge on "whoever believes." The answer to who believes is outlined wonderfully in Romans. But, perhaps knowing (as Paul Harvey used to say) "the rest of the story" is something you don't want to know. Perhaps you enjoy and revel in ignorance. I honestly don't know why you reject so much of God's word.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
So you deny clear scripture that tells us that He wants all to be saved.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Well since the bible says He desires G2309
Thayer Definition:
1) to will, have in mind, intend 1b) to desire, to wish

Well since my understanding is in line with the bible and yours is not then that would make your interpretation wrong. and as you said what is so hard to understand about that.
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No, I don't deny that the wants all types of people to be saved. Not just kings, not just Jews, etc. He does not want to save all individuals, otherwise, he would.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
so you scream at me for not reading the world. Yet you look at a passage and try to interpret a word which literally means the whole of the earth. the population of the earth. or satans system. and not once has it been translated as you want me to translate it. and want me to see it your way?

Yeah. Not happening bro.. I will take the word for what it says, And make God the god of love he is. and not taint his reputation
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Do you care to actually deal with what I wrote rather than going on a rant like a spoiled brat?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

we must read different bibles

Your right, A believer will not be judged according to their sin. But a non believer must be judged for their works. Did they earn salvation.

they will be found wanting..

again, it does not say they will be judged for their sin. See matt 12. ALL/EVERY SIN WILL BE FORGIVEN MEN
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Oh yeah I read the Bible, but clearly you read the bolded part, but then don't read past the comma. :rolleyes:
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
LOL, you may be the greatest contortionist I have ever met, Silverhair.
Do you ever tire of reducing scripture to your own personal sound bytes with no regard for the entirety of scripture?

As I mentioned elsewhere, your little collection of verses hinge on "whoever believes." The answer to who believes is outlined wonderfully in Romans. But, perhaps knowing (as Paul Harvey used to say) "the rest of the story" is something you don't want to know. Perhaps you enjoy and revel in ignorance. I honestly don't know why you reject so much of God's word.
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Just shows that you do not trust what the bible says. Sad really.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
Oh no, the context does, but what you seem unable to comprehend is verse 45, in context, continues my point of it has to be initiated by the Father.
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And you fail to realize that the bible says that man has to believe not that the father believes for them.
 
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