What Is Free Will?

[Reformed1689]

The ones the hear and learn. Remember context.

Hear and learn, FROM THE FATHER!

 

[Silverhair]

Except nobody seeks God. That's the problem you keep ignoring.

You hang your hat on a Midrash, what you would call Jewish hyperbole.

 

[Silverhair]

Nope

Yeah you do. I show you clear scripture and you ignore it.

 

[Silverhair]

What, might I ask, is flying in the face of what the Bible tells us about God? The view being parroted about God being All-Loving and ignoring also his holiness, justice, wrath, etc. His other attributes don't just stop because he is love.

Oh I understand the character of God, the question is, do you?

 

[Silverhair]

Read this thread, I've posted plenty of Scripture.

So have I but you don't seem to see it.

 

[Van]

Did Adam and Eve have the choice to enter into the Garden once God threw them out?

Thanks for agreeing with me...

 

[Van]

1. Yes I did.
2. It says no.
3. Yes
4. No, not without a change in status from God. Nobody is righteous, nobody seeks God. Deny scripture if you want...

Talk about denying scripture - every Calvinist must deny all the verses that indicate unregenerates sought God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have not always been a calvinist. You shouldn't make assumptions, you know what they say about assuming? What strawman have I put forth against you? Please show me and clarify where I was wrong.

I told you what I was taught. And I am telling you what I was taught was WRONG and not found in Scripture. John 3 does not state Christ died for every individual. You read that into the text.

Jesus died for the whoever will believe. Not the rest. It doesn't say he died for the rest. In fact, John 3 does not even discuss who he died for. It just says he came so that whoever believes will live.

Jesus said he died for the sheep, not all people.

so you scream at me for not reading the world. Yet you look at a passage and try to interpret a word which literally means the whole of the earth. the population of the earth. or satans system. and not once has it been translated as you want me to translate it. and want me to see it your way?

Yeah. Not happening bro.. I will take the word for what it says, And make God the god of love he is. and not taint his reputation

 

[Silverhair]

And here we have a strawman saying nobody but a Calvinist can interpret Scripture. Never claimed that. If he wanted all to be saved, all would be saved. Not sure what is so hard to understand about that. So, either the Bible is wrong, or your interpretation is wrong. Which do you think it is?

So you deny clear scripture that tells us that He wants all to be saved.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Well since the bible says He desires G2309
Thayer Definition:
1) to will, have in mind, intend 1b) to desire, to wish

Well since my understanding is in line with the bible and yours is not then that would make your interpretation wrong. and as you said what is so hard to understand about that.

 

[Van]

Still salty over me calling you out for posting an anti-Calvinist remark in an irrelevant thread? At least be honest about the situation since you frequently accuse other of being "fallacious."

Yet another off topic personal false charge. This is all Calvinists have, since their doctrine has been shown to be false according to many scriptures.

Did you ever see a Calvinist complain about me always posting anti-Calvinist posts. But no mention is made of the endless pro-Calvinist posts placed on the board.

1) Did the OP define free will? Nope.

2) Can a person choose to ignore a desire (say fleshly desire) and place his or her mind upon some spiritual things? What does scripture say?

3) Are fallen humans predisposed to sin? What does the bible say.

4) Can a human person ignore his or her predisposition and choose to follow his or her understanding of God's will? What does the bible say?

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, if you are not chosen, you are doomed to hell because of your sin. Correct. That is EXACTLY what Scripture states. God is not responsible for their sin. They are condemned because of their sin. He did not choose to save them.

Well if you hold to the DoG / TULIP, then you are making Him responsible for all those that are in hell. And if you agree with the WCF or LBCF it is stated there quite clearly.

Now as I hold to what the bible says then I can say man is responsible because that is what the bible says. But since you hold to the calvinist doctrines you can not say that and be true to calvinism.

Even your last sentence gives away your calvinism, "He did not choose to save them."

 

[Silverhair]

Such a dishonest post. I've dealt with your nonsense.

Ignoring what is in the post is not dealing with it.

 

[Silverhair]

Verse 45 doesn't change anything.

So context does not matter to you.

 

[AustinC]

so you scream at me for not reading the world. Yet you look at a passage and try to interpret a word which literally means the whole of the earth. the population of the earth. or satans system. and not once has it been translated as you want me to translate it. and want me to see it your way?

Yeah. Not happening bro.. I will take the word for what it says, And make God the god of love he is. and not taint his reputation

You are not listening.
World means world.
But, that word is not the hinge word upon which the passage swings. Instead the hinge word is "whosoever" believes. The context, both before and after shows that not all in the world will believe.
There are many reasons why, but two are prominent.
1) People don't believe because no one has shared the gospel, thus they have not heard the word of God.
2) Having heard the word of God, people consider it utter foolishness and cannot believe.

How does a person believe?
They hear God speak to them when God chooses to make them alive by virtue of the Holy Spirit's quickening. (Ephesians 2:4-5)

 

[AustinC]

So context does not matter to you.

This is rich.
Passages of scripture are shared with you. You fall on one sentence in one verse. Then when you are confronted, you accuse the other person of not considering context.
LOL, that's priceless irony.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It also says inverse Joh 6:45
It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT BY GOD.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

yes

everyone who sees and believes, and everyone who hears and learns..

eph 1 says the same, Hear the word. Believe sealed with the HS

faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word as paul says

etc etc

 

[Silverhair]

Does your bible not include verse Joh 6:45?

Augustine wrote about Joh_6:44,
“If a man comes unwillingly, he does not believe; if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the freewill of the heart.” CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

When you look at Verse 45 and even take into consideration verses 37-39 it still comes down to those that the father gives are those that believe. And they believe after they hear the gospel Eph 1:13 or do you not believe what the bible says.

The bible is not one liners that you pull out to hopefully support your view. The Holy Spirit inspired all of the text and thus we must believe all of it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are not listening.
World means world.
But, that word is not the hinge word upon which the passage swings. Instead the hinge word is "whosoever" believes. The context, both before and after shows that not all in the world will believe.
There are many reasons why, but two are prominent.
1) People don't believe because no one has shared the gospel, thus they have not heard the word of God.
2) Having heard the word of God, people consider it utter foolishness and cannot believe.

How does a person believe?
They hear God speak to them when God chooses to make them alive by virtue of the Holy Spirit's quickening. (Ephesians 2:4-5)

Your right, I am not listening to you. Because I can't

Its like me saying I got a gift for a group of people. but only the people who come will get it.

It does not mean I did not pay for the same gift for everyone.. The ones who do not come miss out..

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.

I was condemned already at one state in my life. Until I chose to believe the gift God came to give us all. Then I moved from a condemned state to a not condemned state

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If Christ paid for this sins of all, and all are not saved, then God is not just and Christ is not powerful enough to save.

This makes no sense.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 pm EDT / 3 pm PDT