When did John the Baptist Get saved?

[Brother Bob]

Good question blackbird but I think he will have his own. Elias Spirit was the one that he went and had control of him as long as he lived including his spirit.

I would like you to answer my previous post though?

 

[Salamander]

"13": Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

His disciples understood, why don't you?

Jesus spoke of John the Baptist coming in the spirit of Elijah, not that he is Elijah, at least when Jesus got finished telling them, they understood He spoke of John the Baptist, why don't you?

He shall be great in the sight of the Lord at his birth, accept it, it is the word of God.

I accept John was great in the sight of the Lord, before his birth and after, but I don't equate that with his salvation, you do. And to folow the Gospel, John was not saved due to God seeing him as great.

Now, the question comes, what was it that the Lord saw John great in?

Zeal? Yes.

Obedience? Yes

Faith? Yes.

Merit? NO!

John had faith unto salvation by grace through receiving the prophesied word of God that the Messaih fulfilled. He didn't, and couldn't, be saved any other way. You're introducing another gospel to say anyone is, or was,saved any other way.

You keep adhering to a belief system that goes contrary to Scripture .

Now. Let me ask you again, when did John the Baptist get saved?

I agree with Scripture and am only confronting, still, your answers that somehow he was never lost.

Was John a man?

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Salamander:
John had faith unto salvation by grace through receiving the prophesied word of God that the Messaih fulfilled. He didn't, and couldn't, be saved any other way. You're introducing another gospel to say anyone is, or was,saved any other way.

First, I have no idea when John the Baptist was saved. But I think you're being a little rigid in saying that God couldn't do something different with John than He does with someone else. If God saw fit to indwell John the Baptist with His Spirit while John was still in the womb so that John was regenerated even from birth, then what's that to you? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS WHAT GOD DID AND I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED.

I'm simply saying that God does make exceptions, and it's something you should consider. For example, you'll see the quote "it is appointed to man once to die" all over this board, as if there is no possible exception to that rule. But tell that to Lazarus or Dorcas, among others.

 

[Salamander]

OK, I see that you cannot offer anything intelligible relating to Scripture to provide any evidence other than conjecture.

The fact is that no one was ever indwelt by the Spirit until salvation, and that after being convicted and being held accountable for their sin.

John doubted who Jesus was while in prison, then he received the report of his disciples the very words of Christ.

Now if you think there is another way to be saved, show me, with Scripture, please.

 

[Brother Bob]

SMM; Yes he was a man, that is why he had to die.

What about Elijah. He went up in a chariot of fire.

His diciples saw that when he spoke Elias had come he meant John the Baptist which is the opposite of what you are saying.

I thank you npet; I know you not taking my side just stating facts and I think you for those facts.

SMM; I ask you again did an unsaved person baptize the Lord?

 

[webdog]

It's amazing that some think that John the Baptist was saved prior to his birth! I guess "faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the Word of God" didn't apply to him...

 

[Brother Bob]

webdog;
Do you know of any unsaved person who has the Holy Ghost? I know of one who tried to buy it.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by blackbird:
When expounded upon correctly---Both!

This is one of those "areas" where the carnal mind has a problem accepting, the reason Jesus said: If you will accept it because it goes beyond what most accept to be "normal",

but as you see on the chart, it opens the door to understanding the "Duality" of prophecy, a Spiritual fulfilling and a Literal fulfilling.

Preterist see the first coming and Revelations as already fulfilled,

The Church see the Second coming and Revelations as still in the future,

Few see both sides.

 

[webdog]

No, and that is why I do not believe JtB was "filled" with the Holy Spirit in a NT way. Was Baalam's donkey saved, too?

 

[Brother Bob]

You have to ask the donkey!

In a NT way; what does that mean?

How many Holy Ghost are there I thought it was a part of the Godhead? If you don't believe he was filled with the Holy Ghost then you don't accept the Scriptures.

Webdog; Did a unsaved John the Baptist baptize our Lord?

 

[Brother Bob]

SMM;

The fact is that no one was ever indwelt by the Spirit until salvation, and that after being convicted and being held accountable for their sin.

Luke, chapter 1
"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

SMM;The fact is that no one was ever indwelt by the Spirit until salvation,

(Looks like you are agreeing with me now for as the above Scripture says John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb.)

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Answer me this one

When Jesus was in Bethany at the tomb of Lazarus--both Mary and Martha spoke of a resurrection

Yea, Lord! My brother will live again at the resurrection in the last day

So--we aren't gonna deny a physical resurrection

But heres my question

At that resurrection---when John the Baptist will be "called forth" from the Earth's graveyard and dust---whos spirit will he have?? His own or Elias'??

Elijah (Whirlwind Elijah) will come back as one of the "two witnesses" during the trib, be killed, lay in the streets "three days" then be raised/rapture to heaven.

Re 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, (Jerusalem)

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;
(rapture)


I don't think "John's Old body" will be resurrected, I think it will stay in the "dust".

God made man from dust, then told satan he would eat dust,

"Flesh" is Satan's "bread of life" in the same sense Jesus's body is our "Bread of life".

Fasting isn't too starve the flesh of food, but of fulfilling it sinful desires, a spiritual starving that in turn, starve Satan.

All flesh is given to Satan, that's why it dies, flesh doesn't mean anything to God, only the soul.

 

[webdog]

Was John an adult or an embryo at the time?

Were all OT believers "filled" with the Holy Spirit prior to Christ giving all believers the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, or did the Holy Spirit come and go?

I accept the Scriptures, but I don't always accept how they are translated or interpreted. John's mother was filled with the Holy Spirit (v. 41). Naturally, John being an extensions of his mother, being inside her, would be a part of that. If John's mother ate something, that food would be passed on to the baby. We would not say that the baby ate the food. I think this is similar.

 

[Brother Bob]

Luke, chapter 1
"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Dosn't say John's mother it says John.

Webdog said; I accept the Scriptures, but I don't always accept how they are translated or interpreted. John's mother was filled with the Holy Spirit (v. 41). Naturally, John being an extensions of his mother, being inside her, would be a part of that. If John's mother ate something, that food would be passed on to the baby. We would not say that the baby ate the food. I think this is similar.

(Talk about interpting and translating compare the above to the actual Scripture below.)


Luke, chapter 1
"13": But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

"14": And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

"16": And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

"17": And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

"18": And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, gotta go take care of a funeral but shall return if Lord's will.

BBob

 

[webdog]

(Talk about interpting and translating compare the above to the actual Scripture below.)


Luke, chapter 1
"13": But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

"14": And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

The greek for "even from" (eti ek) can also be translated "hereafter from" or even "yet after". Puts a whole new meaning on the verse. BTW, that was my interpretation of verse 15 reading it possibly from a physician's viewpoint.

Dosn't say John's mother it says John.

Luk 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped inside her, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
I thank you npet; I know you not taking my side just stating facts and I think you for those facts.

You are quite welcome. All that matters is the truth. Personally, I think John was indwelt by the Holy Spirit in the womb, and I think the evidence of that was when he "jumped". That is even perfectly consistent with total depravity - if total depravity is true (and I believe it is), then there would be no reason for an unborn OR born person to jump for joy about Jesus unless the Spirit indwells him.

But I am not so confident about it that I'd claim it is undeniably true. Just my 12 cents, adjusted for inflation.

EDIT: Wait - I just saw your use of this quote...

Luke, chapter 1
"15": For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

I forgot about that. Well, now I AM confident that it's undeniably true. Thanks for the quote.

 

[npetreley]

FWIW, I don't buy the "yet after" explanation. That's really bending the interpretaion of the Greek, IMO. And it makes no sense to include that information if it was "some indeterminate time yet after". What would be the point of saying that?!?

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
I don't think "John's Old body" will be resurrected, I think it will stay in the "dust".

God made man from dust, then told satan he would eat dust,

"Flesh" is Satan's "bread of life" in the same sense Jesus's body is our "Bread of life".

Fasting isn't too starve the flesh of food, but of fulfilling it sinful desires, a spiritual starving that in turn, starve Satan.

All flesh is given to Satan, that's why it dies, flesh doesn't mean anything to God, only the soul.

So---you deny a future physical resurrection---the old raised to new??

And give me some scripture that says that "all flesh is given to Satan"

And give me some scripture that says that "flesh doesn't mean anything to God, only the soul"---s

And then show me where in the Bible that the flesh is Satan's "Bread of life"

Sounds a bit "gnostic", and LDSish, and reeks of Word of Faith false doctrine---not to mention a little "leaven" pinched in from the JW's
Blackbird

 

[Mel Miller]

blackbird,

Thank you for not being afraid to expose the
false teaching of Me4Him:
Quote:
______________________________________________
So---you deny a future physical resurrection---the old raised to new??

And give me some scripture that says that "all flesh is given to Satan"

And give me some scripture that says that "flesh doesn't mean anything to God, only the soul"---s

And then show me where in the Bible that the flesh is Satan's "Bread of life"

Sounds a bit "gnostic", and LDSish, and reeks of Word of Faith false doctrine---not to mention a little "leaven" pinched in from the JW's
Blackbird

Mel Miller www.lastday.net