Where Is Free Will?

[Gorship]

I often try to avoid using the term "free will" when describing the attributes of man in a soteriological debate because the Determinists will typically play on semantics and try to build the strawman that the non-Determinists believe that man has the freedom and uninfluenced will to save himself. Therefore, I believe human volition is a better term.

"Free Agency" is an invented phrase to defend the philosophical construct of "Compatibilism" which sets out to establish a compromise between free will/human volition and Determinism. The Determinist having faced the unavoidable logically true conclusion that strict Determinism leads directly into Theological Fatalism resorts to using the term "free agency" while trying to theorize that free will can be both true and not true at the same time - which of course has zero possibility of being logically true.

I wish I could like this post twice.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

 

[calledbyHisgrace]

theorize that free will can be both true and not true at the same time - which of course has zero possibility of being logically true.

"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the Lord had spoken by Moses. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:" Exodus 9:34-10:1

 

[Benjamin]

"And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants. And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the Lord had spoken by Moses. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:" Exodus 9:34-10:1

I'm not sure what your example of judicial hardening is supposed to prove other than God's judgment came down on the Pharaoh for his willfulness to push against God. - wherein God would take it to next level and show him and all others the power of the All Mighty God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Free will is free will, just because the extreme determinists try to turn it into a straw man doesn't change what it is. When we get to make a choice between two options it is free will. In other words we are free to make once choice or the other. Call them on their dishonest straw man and deal with it. In reality what their use of the strawman means is that they are either ignorant or have no real argument so they resort to the junk we saw with whatshisface in this thread.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I often try to avoid using the term "free will" when describing the attributes of man in a soteriological debate because the Determinists will typically play on semantics and try to build the strawman that the non-Determinists believe that man has the freedom and uninfluenced will to save himself. Therefore, I believe human volition is a better term.

"Free Agency" is an invented phrase to defend the philosophical construct of "Compatibilism" which sets out to establish a compromise between free will/human volition and Determinism. The Determinist having faced the unavoidable logically true conclusion that strict Determinism leads directly into Theological Fatalism resorts to using the term "free agency" while trying to theorize that free will can be both true and not true at the same time - which of course has zero possibility of being logically true.

WHAT??? Say that again! No - just teasing.

God from the very beginning told His created beings and their begotten what He expected of them/us in worship, actions and relationships. Then, along came Lucifer! The battles in my life are ongoing, but the war is won due to the resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[Reynolds]

Free will is free will, just because the extreme determinists try to turn it into a straw man doesn't change what it is. When we get to make a choice between two options it is free will. In other words we are free to make once choice or the other. Call them on their dishonest straw man and deal with it. In reality what their use of the strawman means is that they are either ignorant or have no real argument so they resort to the junk we saw with whatshisface in this thread.

I think what "free will" is conveniently changes when dealing with most Calvinists. Most don't adhere to Calvin's views on what free will is.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not only have you misrepresented yourself but you now have misrepresented anything I have said in this thread. More dishonest posting from you.

Me thinks someone may not last long around here.

This post is creepy and not connected to what DG posted at all.

 

[Iconoclast]

Free will is free will, just because the extreme determinists try to turn it into a straw man doesn't change what it is. When we get to make a choice between two options it is free will. In other words we are free to make once choice or the other. Call them on their dishonest straw man and deal with it. In reality what their use of the strawman means is that they are either ignorant or have no real argument so they resort to the junk we saw with whatshisface in this thread.

of course rm and all on here cannot produce the one verse that speaks of free will,lol

 

[Reformed]

Don't Calvinists believe that when someone is effectually called they come "most freely"

"as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.[8]"

Westminster Confession of Faith



Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

Yes (but I prefer quoting from the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith):

1689 LBC 10.1 Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

The "most freely" part is made possible by the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration. IOW the Holy Spirit makes the mind capable of understanding the Gospel and then the person is able to "most freely" believe.

 

[loDebar]

Romans 8:34.

Jesus said he did not judge man,, so it is not flesh here but ones, or souls or after physical death anyway

 

[loDebar]

of course rm and all on here cannot produce the one verse that speaks of free will,lol

Choose you this day who he will serve

 

[Iconoclast]

Choose you this day who he will serve

People have self will. They can make choices. That is not questioned by anyone. What is questioned is when Jesus describes men being bound in John 8....how is anyone free from the power and presence of sin.
Furthermore....I. heaven we will not be free to sin...so...where is it?

 

[Reynolds]

People have self will. They can make choices. That is not questioned by anyone. What is questioned is when Jesus describes men being bound in John 8....how is anyone free from the power and presence of sin.
Furthermore....I. heaven we will not be free to sin...so...where is it?

You miss the point. I don't know of many serious non-Calvinists who believe man has the power in himself to break the bondage to sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

You miss the point. I don't know of many serious non-Calvinists who believe man has the power in himself to break the bondage to sin.

The point is then, that they are not "free" to love and serve God, are they?

 

[Reformed1689]

Be consistent and honest with your beliefs. Why are "the doctrines of grace hated"? The honest answer a Calvinist would give is because all who reject the doctrines do so because God has not awakened us to them. We are all lost.

No, they are hated because people see them as unfair or unjust.

There is a very simple explanation for that - we do not believe that men actually have the will or desire to come to God, without God being the cause of it. We readily attest to the fact that God has to draw men before they can be saved. We differ in the scope of His drawing. We believe that all men are drawn and given an opportunity to be saved.

Where is the biblical backing for holding that God draws all men (meaning every person) to Himself? You will not find that anywhere in Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvies should not be allowed to interact with people while they are still in the cage stage.

The way you talk I think you believe that every Calvinist who passionately defends Scripture are cage-stage Calvinists.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

of course rm and all on here cannot produce the one verse that speaks of free will,lol

Brother, we most certainly can and have offered scriptural support for our position. We have no desire to "produce" any one verse upon which we hang our doctrine. Those who disagree with our position have the luxury of redefining words and contexts to fix the passage into their theological box.

 

[Reformed1689]

Brother, we most certainly can and have offered scriptural support for our position. We have no desire to "produce" any one verse upon which we hang our doctrine. Those who disagree with our position have the luxury of redefining words and contexts to fix the passage into their theological box.

Of course, those who are against you must be redefining words....and only have one verse to hang a doctrine on...good grief.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Where is the biblical backing for holding that God draws all men (meaning every person) to Himself? You will not find that anywhere in Scripture.

A multitude of Scripture has been given in support of this biblical position. A simple search for key terms in this debate will give you all the biblical backing you need.

 

[Reformed1689]

A multitude of Scripture has been given in support of this biblical position. A simple search for key terms in this debate will give you all the biblical backing you need.

All I have seen are verses taken out of context to support this idea. So please, show me something that actually asserts your position.