Where is Hell?

[3AngelsMom]

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The ability to work miracles does not denote divine favor. We are warned not to heed a doctrine unless it agrees with the whole of Scripture, EVEN if the person propigating it can work miracles.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isa 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

I would love to know all of your opinions on this passage in reflection of the other passages on hell that I have posted.

God Bless

 

[Me2]

in Rev 20 14-15

God is speaking in Absolutes...theres Fear of seperation within Death and Hell. Fear of being Seperated from God.. Its to be worked out in the understanding of the word of God..

which is another name for the Lake of Fire.

lake of fire is the combined ideas of the sacrifice alter and the regenerative action of renewing your mind by the "washing of Water"..
Fire and Water
its OT Temple Terminology...Johns a Jew...its his vision..I guess God Liked the terminology....

2nd death, is mearly the removal of the power of the fear of death or seperation between Man and God...spiritual death..the 1st death..and physical death..the 2nd death.

notice "hell" is represented as spiritual seperation..and "death" represents physical seperation.

which some here do not taste death...they overcome it by faith in believing it has no power...
its powerless..faith allows some to believe both has been overcome...defeated.

which means that some can overcome the fear or power of "death" and "hell" while they are still alive....

I would call those scriptures not necessarily the path of the overcomers but the path of the
"not-yet-overcomers"..

its always the same asGod represents himself as the Savior..Saved from "hell", Saved from death,. saved from the "Lake of Fire"..proving you cant save yourself..He's Lord

Heres a neat Question..The scriptures stop speaking after verse 15...
about those thrown into the "lake of Fire"..but yet the next vision starts off with New heaven, New Earth..
no Death, No pain,..

Has Gods wrath and vengence stopped or ended ?

[ January 19, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

[BobRyan]

ThreeAngelsMom
With that in mind, there must also come a time when the fire goes out, and those in it are totally consumed. Otherwise how could this verse be true?

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I know I will be crying when I see people I knew burning.

Very true.

My post seems to have been taken by DHK to mean that I did NOT agree fully with the texts that I was quoting.

Quite the opposite I DO agree with them.

And I also agree with your statement above as a direct result of the statement in Rev 21:4

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

God is speaking in Absolutes...theres Fear of seperation within Death and Hell. Fear of being Seperated from God.. Its to be worked out in the understanding of the word of God..

which is another name for the Lake of Fire.

There are no "other names" given in scripture for the "lake of Fire" - except the term "Hell" in very specific cases.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[3AngelsMom]

The Lake of Fire is going to be here on earth after the judgment seat of Christ.

Hell, is a mistranslation of the words sheol, hades, and gehenna, what should be there is 'grave'

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
The Lake of Fire is going to be here on earth

That is imaginative, but not true. Can you support it with Scripture instead of your imagination.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

With that in mind, there must also come a time when the fire goes out, and those in it are totally consumed.

With the above statement in mind, God is a liar, and eternal does not mean eternal, forever does not mean forever. If one can rationalize these verses in this way, why not allegorize the rest of the Bible like the Muslims do and equate the Holy Spirit to Muhammed??
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
ThreeAngelsMom
With that in mind, there must also come a time when the fire goes out, and those in it are totally consumed. Otherwise how could this verse be true?

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I know I will be crying when I see people I knew burning.

Very true.

My post seems to have been taken by DHK to mean that I did NOT agree fully with the texts that I was quoting.

Quite the opposite I DO agree with them.

And I also agree with your statement above as a direct result of the statement in Rev 21:4

So, Bob, if you agree that you will be crying in Heaven when "you see people burning in Hell," even though God promises that there will be no tears in Heaven:
1. you either do not believe the Bible and/or the promises of the Bible,
2. you don't have faith in God to keep His promises true.
Do you, or do you not believe the promises of God to be true?
DHK

 

[Me2]

The bible states that Jesus defeats death..
The Bible states that death was destroyed in the lake of fire..

which is true?

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

(also see 1 cor 15:51-58 ...death is swallowed up.)

and the other verse

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

the "lake of fire" is none other than
Jesus, the Word...or we can call Him,
the Gift of Grace....

can we say that the lake of fire is not an enemy of Jesus.?
For it is under Jesus's reign. It is something Good. So Can it be a place of punishment ?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Me2:
The bible states that Jesus defeats death..
The Bible states that death was destroyed in the lake of fire..
which is true?

Both are true. He "defeated" death at the cross, which will ultimately be "destroyed" in the lake of fire.
Satan, sin, and death were all conquered by Christ at the cross. But all are still realities today. The believer with the power of the Holy Spirit is able to be victorious over each one.
But after the final resurrection, the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead (the undsaved), then death (separation from God) the dead (unbelievers), Hell (former place of unbelievers), will all be thrown into the Lake of fire where they will be forever tormented in a condition of (living) death. The word death simply means "separation." In this case it is separation from God for all eternity, suffering in the Lake of Fire.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Me2:
the "lake of fire" is none other than
Jesus, the Word...or we can call Him,
the Gift of Grace....

can we say that the lake of fire is not an enemy of Jesus.?
For it is under Jesus's reign. It is something Good. So Can it be a place of punishment ?

The Lake of Fire is Jesus?? That sounds like blasphemy. To equate the place of the eternal torment of the wicked to the Lord of Glory!!! What a blasphemous thought! To say that the Lake of Fire is a gift of grace??!!
Do you belong to a cult?
DHK

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

With that in mind, there must also come a time when the fire goes out, and those in it are totally consumed.

With the above statement in mind, God is a liar, and eternal does not mean eternal, forever does not mean forever. If one can rationalize these verses in this way, why not allegorize the rest of the Bible like the Muslims do and equate the Holy Spirit to Muhammed??
DHK</font>

Why does it have to be that way? Because the Bible is clear to me, that when Jesus comes back He will cleanse the earth with fire. He likens it to Sodom and Gomorrah. Are they burning now? NO!

Forever in the Bible is a misinterpretation too! When Samuel was taken to the Temple, his mother said 'He will serve here forever'. Is he still there? When a slave wanted to stay with a master after 7 years he pierced his ear on the doorpost and pledged to serve his master 'forever'. Are those slaves still there serving? NO! They stayed until they died.

In order for someone to burn forever as we understand forever they have to be immortal.

Are we immortal?

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me2:
The bible states that Jesus defeats death..
The Bible states that death was destroyed in the lake of fire..
which is true?

Both are true. He "defeated" death at the cross, which will ultimately be "destroyed" in the lake of fire.
Satan, sin, and death were all conquered by Christ at the cross. But all are still realities today. The believer with the power of the Holy Spirit is able to be victorious over each one.
But after the final resurrection, the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead (the undsaved), then death (separation from God) the dead (unbelievers), Hell (former place of unbelievers), will all be thrown into the Lake of fire where they will be forever tormented in a condition of (living) death. The word death simply means "separation." In this case it is separation from God for all eternity, suffering in the Lake of Fire.
DHK</font>[/QUOTE]That is anthropological dualism.

 

[neal4christ]

Hell, is a mistranslation of the words sheol, hades, and gehenna, what should be there is 'grave'

I would agree for sheol and hades, but not for gehenna. Do you know what gehenna was?

3AngelsMom, what do you think death is: cessation or separation?

Neal

[ January 20, 2003, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]

 

[Me2]

the Lake of Fire is seperation from God...

Huh?.... But death is destroyed.

death is FINAL SEPERATION from God,

Not the "Lake of Fire".

and death is the opposite of Life. and the only life that exists is jesus.

death is defeated...Completely
THE ONLY LIFE THAT EXISTS "RESIDES" IN JESUS...

not in a physical place of seperation
called the "Lake of Fire".

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

Why does it have to be that way? Because the Bible is clear to me, that when Jesus comes back He will cleanse the earth with fire.

It doesn't say that He will cleanse the earth; it says that He will destroy it with fire, and then create a new heaven and a new earth.

Forever in the Bible is a misinterpretation too! When Samuel was taken to the Temple, his mother said 'He will serve here forever'. Is he still there? When a slave wanted to stay with a master after 7 years he pierced his ear on the doorpost and pledged to serve his master 'forever'. Are those slaves still there serving? NO! They stayed until they died.

In order for someone to burn forever as we understand forever they have to be immortal.

Are we immortal?

Yes we are immortal.
1Cor.15:54 "and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
If this does not apply to you, you are not saved.

You can make the Bible say anything you want it to. If you want to believe that black is white, and green is yellow, go right ahead. But that won't change the real truth of the matter. If you want to be blind to the truth, you have the choice. Words have meanings. If you choose to redefine or ignore the plain commonsense meanings of eternal and forever, only because you prefer not to believe what the Scripture says, you are making a sad mistake. You must interpret the Bible apart from your own feelings and presuppostions. It is not a question of what you want the Bible to say, but rather what DOES the Bible say?!
DHK

 

[3AngelsMom]

DHK

First off, tone it down a notch please.

The 1Cor passage is not referring to your state now.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (The problem); neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,(The Solution) and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Read in context, this passage clearly refers to the 2nd Coming and the 1st Resurrection.

Please try again, for your own sake to see, that YOU are not immortal right now. It is a lie, it is actually the FIRST lie that was ever told.

God Bless

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
DHK
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Read in context, this passage clearly refers to the 2nd Coming and the 1st Resurrection.

Please try again, for your own sake to see, that YOU are not immortal right now. It is a lie, it is actually the FIRST lie that was ever told.

So, Paul writing through the power of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit lied. God lied. Is that what you are saying?

Romans 6:23, "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
I am immortal; I have eternal life. This flesly body may die, but I will not. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When this tabernacle that I live in ceases to breathe I will be with my Saviour, alive with Him. I have eternal life now, not in the future--but right now. I am immortal.
I am sorry that you do not share this hope and believe that the Bible is full of lies.
DHK

 

[neal4christ]

that YOU are not immortal right now. It is a lie, it is actually the FIRST lie that was ever told.

Really?

First off, if he is a believer, doesn't he have eternal life now?

Second, while our bodies may be mortal, what of our spirits? Are they mortal as well? Don't your ideas of mortality relate to flesh? What about the spiritual side?

And how do you see death, cessation or separation?

Neal

 

[Me2]

The corintheans passages speak of Spiritual immortality..

when we were judged as sinners we were pronounced guilty..into death we went..
oh by the way we were still alive physically.

the moment we believed that God raised jesus from the dead and delared him more powerful than the power of death...ie LORD..

We were raised with Him..

our spirits put on immortality all the while waiting for physical death...

Jesus Came then the second time..and the resurrection actually occurred then spiritually...by faith, as it applied to our spirits...and I keep referring to by faith...

or reaching past our own death..hearing God pronounce us guilty..accepting Gods Sacrifice in our substitute and recognize Jesus as our propitiator...and finally recognizing thru Gods eyes "Seeing" the reality of God Declaring Jesus Having Power over Death......

or Us finally Recognizing Jesus Is Lord..

Over Death..
and Hell and yes,
even "the Lake of Fire".