Wise and Foolish Virgins

[standingfirminChrist]

HoG,

A wick can be lit without oil, just as a rag can be lit without using a accelerant. It just will not continue to burn without having the oil.

 

[Hope of Glory]

that scripture... where is that where it talks about the Lord coming as a thief in the night?

cause He only comes as a thief in the night to those who are unsaved.

He will come as a thief in the night to everyone. The saved will either be prepared or not, and the unsaved are unsaved. It's a warning to both sets, but the passages are being given to saved people; it concerns them as well.

 

[gekko]

They could not be lit without oil.

like i said, HoG... i have an oil lamp/candle (no wax. just runs off oil).
the wick can be lit without the oil. it wont stay lit though.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'm not an expert on oil lamps, but I've seen a few. If you put oil into an oil lamp with a wick. Doesn't the oil soak into the wick. That's the premise of the oil lamp if I'm not mistaken.

So if I have an oil lamp that I run the oil out of and take it on a trip without any oil in it. The truth is there is still some oil soaked into the wick. Now it wouldn't burn long and would last long, but oil would still be present.

So now not only are some reading into the text that the five foolish were lying, but now that are reading into the text that the five foolish had brand new lamps that had never had oil in them before.

Do you seem how much reading into the text has to go on to try and hold on to a traditional teaching of man. Why can't we just let the text say what it says and conform our theology to the Bible instead of the other way around?

And now, once again, you are reading into the text and implying the lamps were not old. That the wicks had oil in them.

I find nowhere in scripture to back that up. As a matter of fact, I find quite the opposite.

Matthew 25:3 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Took no oil, not in vessels, not in lamps, not in wicks. No oil means exactly that, no oil.

 

[gekko]

So if I have an oil lamp that I run the oil out of and take it on a trip without any oil in it. The truth is there is still some oil soaked into the wick. Now it wouldn't burn long and would last long, but oil would still be present.

yes that is true J.Jump.
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He will come as a thief in the night to everyone.

HopeofGlory... you need to read that passage of scripture more thoroughly to understand that He does not come as a thief in the night to everyone.

 

[Bro Tony]

Here's the word, from the TR: σβεννυνται

This is the word that's used in the man-made translation that you seem to put on a pedestal.

It's a present, passive, indicative, 3rd person, plural.

Do you comprehend that?

The translators of the 1611, which you seem to find infallible, but the translators expected others to build upon their work... Even they put a not in the text of "going out".

I have shown you the word in the Greek text from which the KJ version was translated.

Do you comprehend what a present tense verb is?

Okay, Hope now you have gone and done it you went to the Greek and found the tense of the verb used. Don't you know that the KJV corrects the mistakes by those who wrote the manuscripts? It is also funny how some will use the Geneva version when it supports their KJVO stance but ignore it, and even claim the KJV corrects the Geneva version in places they use different words. Hope, you should know by now that some will not deal with the facts, but will make the Scripture say what they want. I continue to be amazed.

Bro Tony

 

[Hope of Glory]

For another man-made story, I can also add one about a flashlight. In the winter here, it doesn't really get all that cold, usually right around zero, but we only get about 4 hours of daylight. Back around February, we needed to take the RV somewhere, so in order to get it ready, I grabbed my Maglight and went out there. Well, the cold killed the batteries. My light was "going out", so guess what? I had to go get new batteries. It didn't mean that I never had them, just that they weren't as charged up as I needed them.

There. Another relevant anecdote.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

He will come as a thief in the night to everyone. The saved will either be prepared or not, and the unsaved are unsaved. It's a warning to both sets, but the passages are being given to saved people; it concerns them as well.

1 Thessalonians 5:4-5 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The true child of God will not be unprepared when the Lord comes. For he has made his robes white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[gekko]

with them

now what is the meaning of that? what's it say in the greek?

does it mean that they took no oil carrying with them?
or does it mean they took no oil period?

i dont have a concordance... what's the greek for those two words?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

now what is the meaning of that? what's it say in the greek?

does it mean that they took no oil carrying with them?
or does it mean they took no oil period?

i dont have a concordance... what's the greek for those two words?

The Greek word for 'with' is the word 'meta' which can be translated as with or along. It can also be translated as the word 'in'.

a primary preposition (often used adverbially); properly, denoting accompaniment; "amid" (local or causal); modified variously according to the case (genitive association, or accusative succession) with which it is joined; occupying an intermediate position between 575 or 1537 and 1519 or 4314; less intimate than 1722 and less close than 4862):--after(-ward), X that he again, against, among, X and, + follow, hence, hereafter, in, of, (up-)on, + our, X and setting, since, (un-)to, + together, when, with (+ -out). Often used in composition, in substantially the same relations of participation or proximity, and transfer or sequence.

 

[Hope of Glory]

now what is the meaning of that? what's it say in the greek?

does it mean that they took no oil carrying with them?
or does it mean they took no oil period?

i dont have a concordance... what's the greek for those two words?

I don't remember who posted it, but it's a present, passive, indicative: Are going out.

As far as carrying oil, up in verse 4, there are two separate prepositional phrases, that are even translated as such in the KJV, although the KJVO's will turn a blind eye to it because it's inconvenient: The wise took oil "in their vessels" is the first prepositional phrase. The passage says nothing about the unwise and their vessels. But, the wise took the oil in the vessels "with their lamps".

You may take this to mean that they had brand new wicks, without a trace of oil, and the Bible is lying when it says that the lamps were going out, or you can take it to mean that they had not prepared themselves properly for when the bridegroom returns.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

What part of 'no oil' do people not understand? If they had oil in their lamps, they would not have taken 'no oil.'

 

[gekko]

if the foolish virgins had a bit of oil in their lamps. why would they ask the wise for more oil?

you trim your lamp just before you light it. its what you do with oil lamps. to get rid of the excess wick that doesnt have oil soaked on it.

so the lamps were not lit before all ten trimmed their lamps.

the foolish virgins were ignorant to the fact of how much oil they had/had-not.
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again. im just throwing out points that could be valid. i havn't decided myself for myself whether they were saved or unsaved.
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[J. Jump]

Took no oil, not in vessels, not in lamps, not in wicks. No oil means exactly that, no oil.

Like I said you would have us believe that they had gone out the day before and purchased a brand new lamp just for this occasion

The lengths that you must go to protect your tradition, it really does crack me up.

 

[J. Jump]

For he has made his robes white in the blood of the Lamb.

That is only one way a person is made ready for the return of Christ. The person also must have obtained proper wedding attire and that is done through the righteous acts of the saints. We are to array ourselves, clothe ourselves to make ourselves ready for the bridegroom.

You completely leave out the second step which is exactly what the parable we are discussing is all about. It has nothing to do with being clothed in Christ's blood, but preparing ourselves. The only ones that are even able to prepare themselves are saved people.

The true child of God will not be unprepared when the Lord comes.

That is just absolutely incorrect. Not only can you see it in this parable but you can see it in all the parables that follow. You can see it in the parable of the wedding feast. You can see it in the letters to the churches in Revelation. You can see it in OT types as well.

Not all Christians are faithful.

 

[gekko]

Not all Christians are faithful.

there's no such thing as a carnal christian. i've looked into it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Of the churches mentioned in Revelation, only one was pleasing to the Lord. All the others He had something against. I do not see where He told the other 6 that they were accepted of Him.

You are mentioning a works based salvation when you say that we must be clothed in the righteous acts of the saints.

The Bible says it is not works of righteousness which we have done, but we are saved by His marvellous grace, and His grace alone.

My robes were made white by His shed blood. There is nothing I can do to make them whiter, to make them more presentable.

 

[J. Jump]

there's no such thing as a carnal christian. i've looked into it.

Better look some more!

 

[J. Jump]

You are mentioning a works based salvation when you say that we must be clothed in the righteous acts of the saints.

The Bible says it is not works of righteousness which we have done, but we are saved by His marvellous grace, and His grace alone.

My robes were made white by His shed blood. There is nothing I can do to make them whiter, to make them more presentable.

No what you are trying to do is continue to combine two distinct messages into one message that deals with eternal salvation.

If the Bible says that God does everything in regard to salvation why are we told to clothe ourselves or to array ourselves? Why are we the ones told to do the action instead of God saying that He dresses us or clothes us?

How do you get those two Biblical teachings to mesh together without contradicting.

 

[Linda64]

That is only one way a person is made ready for the return of Christ. The person also must have obtained proper wedding attire and that is done through the righteous acts of the saints. We are to array ourselves, clothe ourselves to make ourselves ready for the bridegroom.

You completely leave out the second step which is exactly what the parable we are discussing is all about. It has nothing to do with being clothed in Christ's blood, but preparing ourselves. The only ones that are even able to prepare themselves are saved people.

Why do you add "works" to salvation? We ARE attired in the "righteousness of Christ" (2 Cor. 5:21). We have NO righteous of our own--all our righteousness is "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6)--being IN CHRIST is our ONLY righteousness. There is NOWHERE in the Scriptures which commands us to "prepare ourselves"--that is adding "works". The "works" which we do after salvation are a "result" of Christ "working" in us, through the power of the Holy Spirit (the oil being a "symbol of the Holy Spirit).

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6)

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:6) No gray areas here--it's either grace or works--can't be both.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:1-3) This is what I see in your posts, J.Jump--adding works to grace.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7) Either the blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse us from all sin or it isn't---NO works are necessary to be added to what Christ has already done for us! Praise the Lord!!

The 5 foolish virgins took NO oil (Matthew 25:3)--what part of NIL do you not understand? Their lamps went out because there was no oil in them to keep them lit.