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Yos can't lose salvation!

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drfuss

New Member
AAA writes:
"If they did lose salvation, then you would have to prove they had salvation to begin with and you would also have to prove that something is more powerful then GOD and is therefore able to pluck HIS children out from HIS hand (John 10:28-29)."

drfuss: The OSAS believers continue to use this verse without including verse 27, "My sheep listen to My voice, I know them, and they follow Me". You take verses 28 & 29 out of context. If you listen to His voice and follow Him, you are continuing to trust Christ. Continuing to trust Christ is the criteria for applying verses 28 & 29. The implication is that if you stop trusting Christ, you are no longer His sheep as far as verses 28 & 29 are concerned.

I know, OSAS Christians have been taught for many years that these are OSAS verses; and they will continue believing these are OSAS verses regardless of how many times the context is pointed out to them.
 

ccdnt

New Member
Eliyahu said:
Verse 6 indicates the people who have not been born again, not saved yet.

Actually, I already addressed what you suggest in the earlier post, but I will comment on it again.

John 15:5-7
5"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

To "abide" means to "remain with", to "continue" with, to "stay" with. How can a person remain with Christ if the person was not with Christ to begin with?

Here is the YLT of verse 5 - `I am the vine, ye the branches; he who is remaining in me, and I in him, this one doth bear much fruit, because apart from me ye are not able to do anything;

This shows that "abide" is in the present tense here. A person must be currently with Christ (currently remaining with). If someone was never saved to begin with, then he was never with Christ. How can it be said of someone that is not with Christ and was never with Christ that he must abide/remain with Christ? A person must first come to Christ before he can abide/remain with Him. From this, this seems to be addressing those already in Christ.

How do you explain the use of the word "abide"? It seems to conflict with your reasoning that verse 6 refers to those never saved to begin with.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
DHK said:
Obviously, if a person was not with Christ to begin with he never was a Christian to begin with. From a vine (or tree) runs the sap. And the sap runs through branches. And the branches produces fruit or flowers. That is nature. It happens all the time.
Dead branches have no life. (They are not saved.)
Fruitful branches will be pruned (suffer) that they will bear more fruit.
All branches continue to be joined to the tree, for from the tree it gets its life (sap).
The only other possible lesson that might be learned is that sometimes a branch gets old, and outlives its usefulness. It dies and falls off the tree. Could this represent the believer that dies and goes to heaven?

How delightfully misleading!

Now lets go to John 15 and SEE those branches IN Christ that are pruned while IN CHRIST and yet time after time those living branches do not yield fruit. FINALLY they are REMOVED from the source of life and THEN they shrivel up and are then BURNED. Let us SEE if this was REALLY just Christ's way of saying "old faithful christians that eventually die of old age" in john 15:1-5.

What a golden opportunity to test your methods here.

In Christ,

Bob
 

ccdnt

New Member
DHK said:
Obviously, if a person was not with Christ to begin with he never was a Christian to begin with.

What I have already posted is relevant to your comments:

`I am the vine, ye the branches; he who is remaining in me, and I in him, this one doth bear much fruit, because apart from me ye are not able to do anything;

This shows that "abide" is in the present tense here. A person must be currently with Christ (currently remaining with). If someone was never saved to begin with, then he was never with Christ. How can it be said of someone that is not with Christ and was never with Christ that he must abide/remain with Christ? A person must first come to Christ before he can abide/remain with Him. From this, this seems to be addressing those already in Christ.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member

John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit,
He takes away[/b]; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you
. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 ""If
anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


Rom 11:
19You will say then,
Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, [b]they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
[/quote]


They were even MORE compatible with God's plan than we are today. They could only FALL from such an exalted position. In Christ – the vine (John 15) the Jews fell and this is a warning to “us”? Only if OSAS is not true.

Rom 11:
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.[/b]



They become a warning to US as WE are in THEIR former position.

Rom11:
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.



God desires to RE-establish them WITH US in that FORMER position IN the body of Christ. (Every branch In Me that does not bear fruit is cast into the fire – John 15). Yet here we see that God is able to “graft them in again” – so they can come back IF They do not Continue in unbelief.
 

DeafPosttrib

New Member
BobRyan,

I agree with you.

I cannot understand why cannot Christians reading many simple lectures from Jesus Christ about our spiritual life?

As what my consider of the reason why many Christians seem not actual clearly accept or understand of many simple passages of Christ's teachings, because I notice many securist pastors always twisting on Christ's teaching of our spiritual life, for the purpose to comfort people, by making money rather than teach the truths. To securists, sorry to saying on them. Myself was used to believe in security salvation for many years.

Interesting, Christ mentioned to us of Matt. 7:13-15, He tells us there are two roads, where all people will go in their path to lead their future final destiny life where they will finished their life. Christ tells us, most of people are on the wide road is leading toward destruction -everlasting punishment. Some of people are on the narrow road, which lead to eternal life. Christ warns us of Matt. 7:15 that, we must watch out for false teachers. Christ tells us, blind leads blind. Many people are easily follow their pastor, think pastor telling the truth. But, many pastors are deceived people on the way to destruction.

I know many baptist pastors who teaching security salvation, are wonderful godly men. I highly respect and adore them because of their fruit such as Late Dr. Tom Malone Sr, and many others show their truly fruits, but why do they teaching security salvation anyway?

Many think security salvation is truth, fundamental, and sound doctrine, because of what the Bible saying so. But, many of them have different views and intepreting the Bible.

The fact is, high percent of people who believe in security salvation, because of what they learned from pastors, books come first BEFORE the Bible.

Same idea as pretribulationism. Pretribulationism is not find in the Bible. Over 90% of Christians learned pretribulationism by through pastors, books, friends in the first place BEFORE the Bible. For example, I heard 'pretrib rapture' first time, by through my friend BEFORE I read the Bible. See?

So....

'Trinity', 'Security', 'Pretribulation', 'Premillennial', etc. such as theological terms, these are not find in the Bible.

Today, I notice there is so much confusion and misunderstanding on the Bible, because, there are so many different religions over the world. Which one is right? We all have the only ONE book - Bible have the answer on everything. I do not understand why there are so many seems struggling or probbaly, they dislike what God's Word actual saying.

I know many people over the world are seriously desire have eternal life or go to heaven. But, most of people will be shocked and realized that, they are ended up in destruction at the judgment day.

That why, Christ's biggest concerning with us, that he warns us, we must watch out for teachers with false doctrines of Matt. 7:15.

I can easily identify religions and teachers are teaching false doctrines. But, I have to be careful not to offend them that I know who they are. Only God knows, and let God judge them.

Anyway, I am off the topic or track. I just want to saying something about the doctrine matters. Believing in the doctrines could lead their future final destiny, where they shall spend their soul beyond death.

I consider the teaching of security salvation doctrine is itching ears, and bedrose, comfortable, and positive. The purpose is, pastors who teaching on security salvation to peoplke, to make money.

I agree with Jim Bakker wrote book, "Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse". Himself was before pretrib, now, he is pre-wrath rapture. He says, the purpose of teaching on pretribulationism doctrine, to make money for their success life. America is in great dangerous of apostasy, they focus on sucessful and wealthy life than God. Many people love pretribulation and security salvation, the reason is, they have NOTHING to worry about their soul, they are already "saved". While they enjoy their own life by make money and continue sinning long as they still think they are always saved, will still go to heaven. That is itching ears.

I consider, MANY Christians seem dislike Christ's teaching of passages such as Matt. 25:14-30, Matthew chapter 24-25, these telling us, that we must go through hardship life before we get victory at the end. Many are seeking easy ways, that why, they are on the wide road on the way to destruction. I believe security salvation is a deadly false doctrine, and it deceived wonderful people.

Look at Jesus' example. His life was hardship, and he did overcame them toward Calvary at death. He was not seek over easy ways. So, therefore, we should follow His example.

Throughout whole of the Bible talk about conditional of salvation. There is not a hint verse anywhere in the Bible teaching us of uncondtional(security) salvation. There is so MUCH OVERWHELMED in the four gospels that, Christ talked on conditional with warnings. I believe we all should fear God all the times, because He have power to kill our body and soul both in hell according Matt. 10:28. Many who believing in security salvation, seem not seriously fear God, while they are enjoying their easy life. I am fear that many who believe in security salvation, are already on the wide road, are on the way to their destruction.

I realized Rev. 18:4 warns us that, we MUST come out of her. I believe security salvation is partially of Babylon system. Because, security salvation is its' root comes from John Calvin, and also, from Augustine too. Many religions are come from Roman Catholic. No doubt, Roman Catholic is the Mother of many religions.

I determined sticky with God's Word than staying with popular group or religion, because of truth and fear God than people.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
DeafPosttrib said:
BobRyan,

I agree with you.

I cannot understand why cannot Christians reading many simple lectures from Jesus Christ about our spiritual life?

Preach it!

I know many baptist pastors who teaching security salvation, are wonderful godly men. I highly respect and adore them because of their fruit such as Late Dr. Tom Malone Sr, and many others show their truly fruits, but why do they teaching security salvation anyway?

Many think security salvation is truth, fundamental, and sound doctrine, because of what the Bible saying so. But, many of them have different views and intepreting the Bible.

The fact is, high percent of people who believe in security salvation, because of what they learned from pastors, books come first BEFORE the Bible.

This is very important. Many godly people are in fact acting on what they have been taught by others as truth - but without having the Bible foundation to establish it.

It is obvious for example that both Arminians and Calvinists claim Bible truth but both CAN NOT be correct.

It is obvious that both "believers baptism" and "infant baptism" Christians will claim some form of Bible support but BOTH can not be correct.

It is obvious that BOTH pre-trib rapture and POST-trib rapture claim some form of Bible support but BOTH can not be correct.

It is obvious that those who ACCEPT that John 6' symbol of bread "that came down from heaven" is a symbol referencing the WORD of God and those that reject it - are claiming some form of Bible support yet BOTH can not be correct!

It proves that the influence of man-upon-man is so strong that many can not tell if they are following the Bible or following man.

Same idea as pretribulationism. Pretribulationism is not find in the Bible. Over 90% of Christians learned pretribulationism by through pastors, books, friends in the first place BEFORE the Bible. For example, I heard 'pretrib rapture' first time, by through my friend BEFORE I read the Bible. See?

Yes - that is exactly the problem that all must overcome!

I consider the teaching of security salvation doctrine is itching ears, and bedrose, comfortable, and positive. The purpose is, pastors who teaching on security salvation to peoplke, to make money.

I agree with Jim Bakker wrote book, "Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse". Himself was before pretrib, now, he is pre-wrath rapture. He says, the purpose of teaching on pretribulationism doctrine, to make money for their success life. America is in great dangerous of apostasy, they focus on sucessful and wealthy life than God.

I agree that in the case of some of these man-made doctrines the draw is not merely in the form "a well respected Bible teacher told me this was true so it must be true" but also the topic itself is a "go to sleep nothing can go wrong" teaching that is soothing to the ears and blunts the warning in God's Word -- muffled so it can not be heard.

Many people love pretribulation and security salvation, the reason is, they have NOTHING to worry about their soul, they are already "saved". While they enjoy their own life by make money and continue sinning long as they still think they are always saved, will still go to heaven. That is itching ears.

Exactly sir!

In Christ,

Bob
 

Oasis

New Member
DeafPosttrib
I consider the teaching of security salvation doctrine is itching ears, and bedrose, comfortable, and positive. The purpose is, pastors who teaching on security salvation to peoplke, to make money.

I agree with Jim Bakker wrote book, "Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse". Himself was before pretrib, now, he is pre-wrath rapture. He says, the purpose of teaching on pretribulationism doctrine, to make money for their success life. America is in great dangerous of apostasy, they focus on sucessful and wealthy life than God. Many people love pretribulation and security salvation, the reason is, they have NOTHING to worry about their soul, they are already "saved". While they enjoy their own life by make money and continue sinning long as they still think they are always saved, will still go to heaven. That is itching ears.
There are many strong Christians; preachers, teachers and Godly men and women who are convicted of the Scriptures teaching of Eternal Security. For you to equate them and us with the whoremongers who are only out to fleece people to line their pocketbooks is an insult and shows ignorance of what God's love and purpose for Christians truly involves.

PostDeaftrib and Bob Ryan--you both would do well to remember that there are people on both sides of this issue who use and twist it to their own advantage. Arrogant, blanket statements like those made in the above post(DeafPosttrib's post) are inflammatory and only serve to further divide sincere Christians whose only goal is to serve God.
 
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BobRyan

Well-Known Member
You have glossed over a key point in DeafPosttrib's post and my response --- here it is "again"

DPT
Quote:

I know many baptist pastors who teaching security salvation, are wonderful godly men. I highly respect and adore them because of their fruit such as Late Dr. Tom Malone Sr, and many others show their truly fruits, but why do they teaching security salvation anyway?

Many think security salvation is truth, fundamental, and sound doctrine, because of what the Bible saying so. But, many of them have different views and intepreting the Bible.

The fact is, high percent of people who believe in security salvation, because of what they learned from pastors, books come first BEFORE the Bible.


Bob said
This is very important. Many godly people are in fact acting on what they have been taught by others as truth - but without having the Bible foundation to establish it.

It is obvious for example that both Arminians and Calvinists claim Bible truth but both CAN NOT be correct.

It is obvious that both "believers baptism" and "infant baptism" Christians will claim some form of Bible support but BOTH can not be correct.

It is obvious that BOTH pre-trib rapture and POST-trib rapture claim some form of Bible support but BOTH can not be correct.

It is obvious that those who ACCEPT that John 6' symbol of bread "that came down from heaven" is a symbol referencing the WORD of God and those that reject it - are claiming some form of Bible support yet BOTH can not be correct!

It proves that the influence of man-upon-man is so strong that many can not tell if they are following the Bible or following man.
 

drfuss

New Member
drfuss: Suggest both sides tone down the strong language here. After all, we are just discussing a doctrinal issue on our way to heaven.


Oasis writes:
"There are many strong Christians; preachers, teachers and Godly men and women who are convicted of the Scriptures teaching of Eternal Security."

drfuss: I have heard this argument many times before. However, the following can also be said:
"There are many strong Christians; preachers, teachers and Godly men and women who are convicted that the Scriptures do not teach Eternal Security."

OSAS Christians tend to live in the OSAS world and look up to their OSAS preachers. Non-OSAS Christians tend to live in the Non-OSAS world and look up their Non-OSAS preachers.

Oasis, my point is that your statement has no merit on this issue since the other side can say the same thing. Hopefully, you don't believe in OSAS because of what certain preachers say.
 

Oasis

New Member
I'll post DeafPosttrib's quotes "again" and add one more of his.

The fact is, high percent of people who believe in security salvation, because of what they learned from pastors, books come first BEFORE the Bible.

Same idea as pretribulationism. Pretribulationism is not find in the Bible. Over 90% of Christians learned pretribulationism by through pastors, books, friends in the first place BEFORE the Bible. For example, I heard 'pretrib rapture' first time, by through my friend BEFORE I read the Bible. See?


I consider the teaching of security salvation doctrine is itching ears, and bedrose, comfortable, and positive. The purpose is, pastors who teaching on security salvation to peoplke, to make money.

I agree with Jim Bakker wrote book, "Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse". Himself was before pretrib, now, he is pre-wrath rapture. He says, the purpose of teaching on pretribulationism doctrine, to make money for their success life. America is in great dangerous of apostasy, they focus on sucessful and wealthy life than God. Many people love pretribulation and security salvation, the reason is, they have NOTHING to worry about their soul, they are already "saved". While they enjoy their own life by make money and continue sinning long as they still think they are always saved, will still go to heaven. That is itching ears.

No Bob, I did not "gloss over" his other statements. He compliments those he disagrees with and then he turns around and trashes them with blanket statements that contain unsupported facts and figures. It's like two-stepping with a scorpion. One minute you're dancing around and everything is friendly, then....WHAP!...hat old stinger swings around and stabs you in the back.

AAA started a good thread. It is a shame that some of these threads start out with good, friendly discussion/debate and then one or more people start posting in arrogance and end up ruining fruitful conversation. I was going to spend some time this weekend addressing some verses of other posters, but my computer time is too valuable to spend my time reading and responding to the garbage contained in posts like DeafPosttrib's.
 

Oasis

New Member
drfuss
Oasis, my point is that your statement has no merit on this issue since the other side can say the same thing. Hopefully, you don't believe in OSAS because of what certain preachers say.
Hi drfuss,

Of course not. My convictions come from Scripture, as I am sure yours do.
As for strong language, I would not expect you to tolerate me trashing your view with unfounded statements. I expect the same courtesy. I've got things to do. I'll follow this thread. If it gets back on track then I will enjoy contributing. If not...there are other threads.

Take care
 

drfuss

New Member
Oasis said:
drfuss

Hi drfuss,

Of course not. My convictions come from Scripture, as I am sure yours do.
As for strong language, I would not expect you to tolerate me trashing your view with unfounded statements. I expect the same courtesy. I've got things to do. I'll follow this thread. If it gets back on track then I will enjoy contributing. If not...there are other threads.

Take care

drfuss: I hope you are not incliding me in view trashing, because I don't trash other's views. If I do, please tell me when and where.
 

Oasis

New Member
drfuss
drfuss: I hope you are not incliding me in view trashing, because I don't trash other's views. If I do, please tell me when and where.
Good heavens no, drfuss!:wavey:

You've been nothing but courteous in all of your postings that I've read. I look forward to future conversations with you and others here and in other threads in the future. I'll catch up with you guys/gals later.

Have a great day!:godisgood:
 
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BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Since we are agreed that we want to exchange views but not resort to ad hominem - the point raised on the previous page "again".

BobRyan said:

John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit,
He takes away[/b]; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you
. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 ""If
anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


Rom 11:
19You will say then,
Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, [b]they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.



They were even MORE compatible with God's plan than we are today. They could only FALL from such an exalted position. In Christ – the vine (John 15) the Jews fell and this is a warning to “us”? Only if OSAS is not true.

Rom 11:
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.[/b]



They become a warning to US as WE are in THEIR former position.

Rom11:
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.



God desires to RE-establish them WITH US in that FORMER position IN the body of Christ. (Every branch In Me that does not bear fruit is cast into the fire – John 15). Yet here we see that God is able to “graft them in again” – so they can come back IF They do not Continue in unbelief.[/quote]
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Post 84

Lets deal with "the obvious" points made IN The text of Matt 18.

#1. The forgiveness shown OTHERS was to be based on the real forgiveness ALREADY received from God.

#2. The REAL forgiveness received from God was regarding the unpayable DEBT that each one owes to God. The debt of sin.

#3. NO one can be SAVED but UNFORGIVEN.

#4. THIS IS an illustration of "THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN" according to Christ.

#5. This is the SAME instruction we see in Matt 6 in the Lord's prayer "FORGIVE us our debts AS WE forgive others".

#6. The DEBT OWED to the King of kings is RETURNED back to the one who OWED the debt as "payment due" and they are put into torment paying that huge debt of sin! This pay-your-own-debt-of-sin idea is never called "The saved relationship with God" in all of scripture.

#7. Christ says to his own followers "So shall My Heavenly Father do to EACH ONE OF YOU IF you do not forgive...". Christ makes the same point that He made in Matt 6 "For IF YOU do not FORGIVE... then neither will..."

#8. The Cahpter of Matt 18 DOES NOT end in vs 22 just saying “YES you should forgive lots o time -- but if you do not nothing bad will happen to you” -- the way many “wish” the chapter had ended.

Matt 18 is a clear, irrefutable and obvious case of "forgiveness REVOKED".

The response of those what believe in OSAS will often list reasons why this story "should not be in scripture" (as it were) -- but they never actually address the devastating "details" in Matt 18 regarding OSAS.

That is instructive.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Matt 18
28 ""But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, "Pay back what you owe.'
29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to
plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison
until he should pay back what was owed.

Here the case of “the Forgiven” slave is that HE is “unwilling” to show forgiveness to others even though he HAS been forgiven.

Exercising his free-will he is “Unwilling” to give to others that SAME sense of mercy and compassion that HAS been shown him by his Lord.
Matt 18
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "
You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.


The Lord does not show any reservation about the full and complete forgiveness that HE gave to His servant.

Matt 18
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'


Here is the direct appeal to the same Point we see Christ making in Matt 6 Forgive us OUR debts AS WE forgive our debtors and then adds For if you do NOT forgive others then…” well you know what He said.

Matt 18
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger,
handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.


Clearly – “forgiveness revoked” with FULL payment made now – by the slave!
.
Matt 18
35 "" My heavenly
Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''


Here many shout “OH NO He will NOT!”. They think that “once forgiven ALWAYS forgiven” applies even to those in rebellion. (A good 4-point Calvinist POV by the way).

Here Christ charges that the point is valid for Christians. He argues (and motivates Peter via the illustration given as an answer to Peter’s question) that WE who have been forgiven by our heavenly Father “should” as in (are obligated to) forgive others.

Paul makes this same case in Col 3
 

DeafPosttrib

New Member
Ok. You see, BobRyan lists of many passages from the Bible mentioned on conditional.

So, I ask you a question, are these all passages of conditionals, to warn us that we would lose "Reward" at the judgment seat of Christ??? If so, please show us a single verse in the Bible that we will lose 'reward'. Thanks.

By the way, God doesn't interesting what kind of religion, you are. God only interesting in our hearts with our truly faith, actions with fruits.

Our fruits cannot be produce or growing, unless [BIF[/B] we moving with our faith.

Christ use many illustrations of objects apply our spiritual practical. Christ used tree and fruit. When we see literal trees and fruits out there outside, you see many trees are dying because of lack water. Also, fruits like as grapes, strawberries, etc. are dying or dead because of without water. LONG as they are continued dying without water or rain, by the conclusion, they die- period.

Water represents God's Word, if we continue thirst for God's Word daily, then our spiritual life would growing same with our fruit should be processing growing. Or, if we stopped eager or thirst for God's Word, and do not continue in Christ, then our spiritual would be die. There is not a single verse in the four gospels that, Christ gives us a hint that, we would lose our "rewards", but he simple telling us, if we failed to endure, growing, obey Him, then we would be cast away into the outer darkness. There will be no other second chance for a person would be finally released out of it beyond the judgment day according Matt. 25:30, and many other verses.

So, again, I ask you, can you find a single verse in the Bible saying that we will lose "reward", if we failed to meet God's command of conditionals. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
 

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
DeafPosttrib: //So, I ask you a question, are these all passages of conditionals, to warn us that we would lose "Reward" at the judgment seat of Christ??? If so, please show us a single verse in the Bible that we will lose 'reward'. Thanks. //

If you get lost again, not meeting God's conditions,
then you can't get any rewards after your life.
You have asked an impossible question according to
your belief. That should tell you your belief is
in error.
 
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