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Young Earth Creationism.

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Chomper76

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Well, we don't understand God's ability to explain the unknowable to Adam and Eve.
He is capable of that you know.
Before they actually died -
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Bugs - we don't know if there as a specific number of bugs made which wouldn't die.
And/or we don't know the dynamics of reproduction before the sin of Adam.
whether reproduction stopped after the commandment was filled to "fill the earth".

Plus scripture -

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

So in other words, no explanation, no evidence. God of the Gaps fallacy.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
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Come on. That is nonsense. How would Adam & Eve even understood the warning then if they had not seen death already?

Considering the reproductive rate of insects, the Garden of Eden would have been overran.

Insects are not animals. Also, it is thought that the time in the Garden of Eden was very short. So, no, there were no examples of death. How could it be the Garden of Eden if there was death when God had said that the creation was good and death is not good? Are you an atheist?
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
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So in other words, no explanation, no evidence. God of the Gaps fallacy.
Get serious. When you by innuendo are flippant about God and his dealings concerning His creation you seem insincere and IMO just want to appear as having superior knowledge. My point is we are not revealed a lot about the pre-fall laws of biology and physics.

Rather than ridicule and contempt please make a rebuttal that is without an oblique ad hominem.

Ridicule, contempt, etc should be reserved for the political forums. :)
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
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Get serious. When you by innuendo are flippant about God and his dealings concerning His creation you seem insincere and IMO just want to appear as having superior knowledge. My point is we are not revealed a lot about the pre-fall laws of biology and physics.

Rather than ridicule and contempt please make a rebuttal that is without an oblique ad hominem.

Ridicule, contempt, etc should be reserved for the political forums. :)

I could be wrong but I believe that person is rebel1 who was just banned. They won't last long.
 

Chomper76

Member
Get serious. When you by innuendo are flippant about God and his dealings concerning His creation you seem insincere and IMO just want to appear as having superior knowledge. My point is we are not revealed a lot about the pre-fall laws of biology and physics.

Rather than ridicule and contempt please make a rebuttal that is without an oblique ad hominem.

Ridicule, contempt, etc should be reserved for the political forums. :)

I cannot help but see hilarious irony in some of these arguments.

How can one attack scientists for incomplete knowledge of the universe by throwing out conjecture like, well maybe the universal laws were different in the past, when there is absolutely no evidence for said conjecture?

Basically we have on one hand fallible man made interpretation of the Bible and a plethora of scientific evidence in the other. When evidence conflicts with an interpretation of the Bible, maybe people should question a fallible interpretation instead of just blindly throwing out unsubstantiated "what ifs". That is what I am being flippant about.
 

church mouse guy

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I cannot help but see hilarious irony in some of these arguments.

How can one attack scientists for incomplete knowledge of the universe by throwing out conjecture like, well maybe the universal laws were different in the past, when there is absolutely no evidence for said conjecture?

Basically we have on one hand fallible man made interpretation of the Bible and a plethora of scientific evidence in the other. When evidence conflicts with an interpretation of the Bible, maybe people should question a fallible interpretation instead of just blindly throwing out unsubstantiated "what ifs". That is what I am being flippant about.

You are engaging in conjecture when you say that the rate of decay in radiation is uniform for all time, aren't you?
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I cannot help but see hilarious irony in some of these arguments.

How can one attack scientists for incomplete knowledge of the universe by throwing out conjecture like, well maybe the universal laws were different in the past, when there is absolutely no evidence for said conjecture?

Basically we have on one hand fallible man made interpretation of the Bible and a plethora of scientific evidence in the other. When evidence conflicts with an interpretation of the Bible, maybe people should question a fallible interpretation instead of just blindly throwing out unsubstantiated "what ifs". That is what I am being flippant about.
Wrong you were caught in your inhumanity to your fellow man.

AOBTW there is (or was) an article in Scientific American (about 1995 or so) named C is not a Constant.
So much for your Uniformitarianism.
 

Chomper76

Member
You are engaging in conjecture when you say that the rate of decay in radiation is uniform for all time, aren't you?

No. Unlike you, I am not asserting there was some time where universal laws were altered temporarily, without any evidence backing thar assertion. And it isn't uniform. That is not what a half life means. It is an average. There is a few percent variance. Negligible when we are talking about thousands or millions or billions of years.
 

Chomper76

Member
Wrong you were caught in your inhumanity to your fellow man.

AOBTW there is (or was) an article in Scientific American (about 1995 or so) named C is not a Constant.
So much for your Uniformitarianism.

Please find any personal insults in this quote. "So in other words, no explanation, no evidence. God of the Gaps fallacy." I'd love to have one pointed out.

As far as your 1995 article, I was unable to find it. But you are way out of date. There have been more recent research on that in recent years. Though the math has been questionable.

Still nothing to support the YEC view. It requires God to artificially age his star creation as many supernova have been observed.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Please find any personal insults in this quote. "So in other words, no explanation, no evidence. God of the Gaps fallacy." I'd love to have one pointed out.

As far as your 1995 article, I was unable to find it. But you are way out of date. There have been more recent research on that in recent years. Though the math has been questionable.

Still nothing to support the YEC view. It requires God to artificially age his star creation as many supernova have been observed.
Like Jesus did with the "best" wine he created in an instant at the wedding.
 

Chomper76

Member
Like Jesus did with the "best" wine he created in an instant at the wedding.

Wow that is a massive leap. Especially since fermentation wasn't understood until around 1857. That wine was allowed to oxidize.

And I sure wouldn't want to drink ancient wine as in Proverbs 23;

In the end it bites like a snake
and poisons like a viper.
33 Your eyes will see strange sights,
and your mind will imagine confusing things.

Haha. Fitting since lead was a common additive to ancient wines

Besides my weak attempt at humor, it still goes back to there being no evidence God created a universe with stars already on the edge of death, and supernaturally accelerated the light to artificially age the universe.

All there is behind that is man made interpretation of scripture that is not held by all Christians.
 

Reynolds

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Based on that view I would have never accepted Christ as my Savior. But now knowing God through Christ I cannot not be a Christian.

The speed of light. And a near naked eye galaxy Andromeda is believed to be about 2.5 million light years away. That understanding seems to make your YEC view impossible.

Now I personally believe the 6 days of Genesis 1 are to be understood to be 6 earth days (Exodus 20:11).

I believe the first day our Sun became a star. And by the fourth day the solar system debris which blocked seeing the Sun, Moon and stars as distinct lights was blown past the earth. Today the mean velocity of the solar wind is about 310 miles per second. At 93 million miles that takes about 3 and 1/2 days to reach earth.
The entire Earth age discussion to me is awkward. I have no problem with a 6000 year Earth. Where my problem lies is in the way we as YEC handle it. So, God created a mature Universe. Mature seems by best scientific evidence to be about 2 to 5 billion years. God created a universe that was 5 Billion years mature and we get bent out of shape when science ages it to the mature state to which God made it.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
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No. Unlike you, I am not asserting there was some time where universal laws were altered temporarily, without any evidence backing thar assertion. And it isn't uniform. That is not what a half life means. It is an average. There is a few percent variance. Negligible when we are talking about thousands or millions or billions of years.

You have no scientific evidence to back up your assertion whatsoever. You are saying that the laws of the universe are uniform, hence you are talking uniformitarianism. You have no way of knowing if there was or was not a constant rate of decay in radiation. What you are saying is that we observe this in the modern world and so therefore this observation is true for all time. But the pre-flood world was destroyed totally by a catastrophic flood wherein the tectonic plates of the earth were totally torn loose and the fountains of the deep opened up and released the waters of the oceans.
 
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