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Featured Have Any Spiritual Gifts Ever "Died Out"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Apr 11, 2013.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Where does the Word of God support what you have?
    What does the Word of God say about what you do? (answer--nothing)
    What are Biblical tongues?
    Answer: Biblical tongues are the languages of the Bible or Bible times: Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, Chaldee, (in Israel), and other languages like Egyptian, Persian, etc. in the rest of the world. What are the Biblical languages that you speak? Please inform us.
    A biblical tongue/language can easily be identified. I have studied some of them.
    The word "utterance" means "ability to speak". Look it up.
    You claim that the Holy Spirit gave you the ability to speak Biblical languages. Now tell the truth or admit you lie and hypocrisy. Which of the Biblical languages did the Holy Spirit give you the ability to speak. Perhaps we can carry on a limited conversation in one of those languages right on this board. Language is a means of communication.
    Now you also claim that the Lord not only gave you the gift of tongues, but also gave you the gift of interpretation. You should be doubly aware of what you are speaking and understanding. Perhaps you know Greek and are able to interpret it into Hebrew. Is that the gift you have?

    I am basing my questions on Scripture and on your experience. I don't need to quote Scripture except to remind you of the definition of Biblical words. I trust you can answer this post and clear things up.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The gifts of the Spirit include the gifts of healing, of miracles, of languages. This is not an attack on your walk, so quit playing the martyr!
    1. Have you ever demonstrated the gift of miracles in your life?
    2. Have you ever demonstrated the gift of healing in your life--not a simple answer to prayer, but as Peter did in Acts 5:16: thousands receiving healing, and no exceptions.
    3. Have you ever received the gift of languages--the ability to speak in foreign languages without interpretation as they did on the Day of Pentecost. They spoke in other known languages and they knew what they were saying. They were not mindless robots.
    Really. Look again:
    Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
    3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
    --Is this your promise, directed to you
    ?

    It says that God will bless those that bless you and God will curse them that curse you. It also says that out of you God will make a great nation; your name will be great.
    All of that you have claimed for yourself.
    You said "yes." Really? Or is this another hypocritical lie, typical of Charismatics.
    My examples are simple. Not every promise in the Bible is a promise that a believer living today can claim. The Abrahamic covenant was given to Abraham not to you, for example.
    The gifts of the Spirit were given to first century churches before the Bible was complete and before the Apostles had died.
    Today: miracles do happen; healing does happen, and people are able to LEARN other languages.
    However:
    1. You do not have the gift of miracles--2Cor.12:12; Heb.2:3,4--the sign of an apostle to perform many signs and wonders or miracles to demonstrate that he was an apostle. You cannot do that. You don't have that gift.
    2. You don't have the gift of healing, as Peter had that gift and demonstrated it in Acts 5:16.
    3. You don't have the gift of languages as Paul did or the 120 did. You can't speak in other known languages.
    Words have meanings. When you change the meanings of words you simply end up with foolishness. That is what you have done.
    Concerning "manifestation," I don't like to use it because you have redefined it and given it an existential meaning. Concerning faith, you don't have a proper definition of it either. Use a dictionary!
    The illustration I gave demonstrates that you don't have a clear definition of what faith is. You are redefining the word according to your own Charismatic beliefs.
    Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
    --This is a demonstration of the gift of healing.
    It is a gift you don't have, nor do any of your Charismatic friends. They are wolves in sheeps clothing--frauds.
    Don't lie. Don't twist my words. I never said I was seeking tongues.
    I said clearly that I know I have to learn languages. It would have been nice if that gift were in existence, but it is not and I clearly knew that. But for you to say that I sought for tongues is an outright slanderous lie.

    William Carey was the father of the modern missionary movement.
    He went to Indian in the 1800's. He didn't have the gift of so-called tongues. He studied. By the time his life was over he had translated the Bible or parts thereof into 44 different languages. Carey had no formal education. He was a shoe-cobbler. The learning of languages came from hard work, not miraculous intervention.
    More misrepresentation.
    I never said that God does not do miracles.
    I said that the gift of miracles has ceased. There is a difference.
    Do you have the gift of miracles? Are you able to do the signs and wonders that Paul could (2Cor.12:12). Do you have that gift? If not why claim that you do, or even that it is still in existence if you can't point to anyone that has it? Pure hypocrisy!
    You don't even know what that verse means.
    We please God by a walk of faith. That is true, but not by wishing for promises that are not directed to us, like parting the Red Sea, or wishing to have the gift of miracles which you don't have.
    Your misinterpretation of God's Word leads people into unbelief and into emotional turmoil and destruction.
    gift of Miracles? gift of healings? gift of languages?
    Nope. Haven't seen them. There is no evidence. Hasn't been for more than 1900 years. They were given to the churches of the first century. Read the context of the Scriptures when you read them.
    That is in Acts chapter two. And nowhere does that promise include the sign gifts. It simply means that they who believe in Christ will receive the indwelling of the Spirit as opposed to the Spirit coming upon them as did happen in the OT. God would be with them continually forever. He would never leave them nor forsake them.
    1. Do you hear a sound from heaven like a mighty rushing wind fill your house every time you "speak in tongues."
    Then you know it is not Pentecost, not of God.
    2. Do you see cloven tongues like fire above your head (use a mirror). Then you know it is not Pentecost and not of God.
    3. It is a real "Biblical" language that others can understand and say: "I am amazed that I am hearing this foreign language which is my actual mother tongue." If not it is not of God.
    Biblical history ended 2,000 years ago.
    There is something to be said for history since that time; it cannot be dismissed. There is something to be said about what is happening today as well. You don't live in isolation. You don't have sole claim on the Word of God. Your attitude of everyone in the span of 1900 years is wrong, and I am the only one is right, is the height of arrogance; unbelievable vanity!
    Examine your position on scripture. Perhaps you don't have the plain truth on Scripture and have likely been deceived.
    It does contradict other Scriptures. But you refuse to listen; refuse to be taught or have a teachable spirit.
    You are a Charismatic, and as such have associated yourself with the entire Charismatic movement. You have embraced false doctrine. The doctrine you share is not the truth. It is Scripture that has been twisted from its context and oft times been redefined to mean something it doesn't mean. It is error.
     
  3. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I have given you scripture after scripture with the correct interpretation in context. You have deflected, ignored, denied this, and lied about what I said. It is not possible to have an honest discussion with you. You have an unteachable spirit. You are deceived.

    It is a proven fact from missionaries on the mission field that tongue-talk is not a language but simply gibberish.
     
  4. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    And you have failed because this view has been totally refuted from scripture taken in context. You are promoting a false, arrogant, divisive doctrine.
     
    #84 Thomas Helwys, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2013
  5. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    So you are taking the fake to prove the real wrong??

    I have not lied about what you said! I questioned what you said and you got offended!
     
  6. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I will ignore any post that I am called a liar on! Which by the way is against the rules, isn't it? Or do you not have to abide by them???
    I will answer this LAST personal question...and from this point on I will only answer the post you refute the Word that is presented and not my personal walk!
    The above in bold is what I have answered over and over...I do not have to prove anything to you about my personal walk, period! Does that prove I am a liar, NO!
    I have showed you over and over what the BIble says concerning tongues and interpretation. YOu can decide as others......believe or stay in unbelief concerning them!
    You ask for proof because of your own lack of belief! Because the Word is clear that the person that is speaking does not know the language they are speaking! This subject will be closed between us...because you do not bring anything new to the debate that has not already been discussed!
     
  7. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    That is your choice to believe or not to believe what was presented! I kept it in context and not one scripture contradicted the other! You theory on the other hand does contradict other scriptures. If you would like to state you side of the debate, fine! But the last few pages of this thread was nothing but personal attacks and opinions about what I posted instead of scripture proof!
     
  8. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I only read this far and the personal questions stopped me! Keep my personal walk out of the post! Stick to the post that I stated scriptures and rebute with scriptures or our debate will be through!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    they were associated with the Apostles of jesus though, for did not mark and Luke receive inspiration derived from association with peter and paul? That the HS moved upon them, as the Apostolic "umbrella' covered them also?

    So IF you want to say the Gifts of today are being done by those NOT Apostles, problem is that you eed to have real biblcial Apsotles living to be the witness/confirming testimony those others are doing it by the lord!

    And that God does miracles and healings at times, NONE here dispute, but NO verses supportingongoing sign gifts to the church!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did paul and His gift of healing waned away near end of his life?

    Did he heal himself, or timothy of his ailments?

    if not, could it just be that the Lord period of doing things that way was ceasing?
     
  11. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  13. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    NO! To say that is to say that God was not able to continue...because it was God not Paul!

    I have posted this on other thread..but for your sake I will post it again...
    Paul told Timothy to drink wine and not just water, because Timothy was experiencing frequent stomach illnesses (1 Timothy 5:23). Based on this verse, people sometimes claim that Paul couldn't heal Timothy, as if Paul was "losing" his ability to heal people. But clearly Paul was writing to Timothy. Paul was nowhere near Timothy and couldn't have laid hands on Timothy even if he wanted to! Notice that Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that healing was "dying out" in the first century.








    It is more like man's unbelief got in the way of God working through them! Not Paul! Because I do not see anytime where he claimed it would!
     
    #93 awaken, Apr 15, 2013
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  14. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  16. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Look, if I claim that I can walk across Niagara Falls I would expect others to say "prove it."
    This has nothing to do with your private life, so quit playing the martyr.
    If you make claims then back them up. If you can't back them up then you are a fraud. IT is plain and simple. Where is the evidence; the proof?
     
  18. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Then prove you are a child of God! Do you see what you are doing? You claim you are a christian...Prove it! No difference! Stick to scriptures and I will not have to prove my personal walk and neither will you!
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes, I can demonstrate that I am a Christian.
    I can give you the date that I was saved, that I trusted Christ as my Savior.
    I can even give you the approximate time.
    I can give you the names of the two people that were there who explained the gospel message to me, and why it was then and there.
    I can tell you that at that time I was sure that I was going to heaven, as I still am sure to this day, just as sure as if I was already there.
    "He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life."
    Absolutely, I can give you my testimony of my salvation, as I do to others on a regular basis.

    OTOH, you cannot give evidence of a single miracle.
    You cannot stand in front of a crowd doing signs and wonders like Peter or even Philip did.
    Nor can you heal thousands like Peter did.
    Nor can you speak many different languages like Paul or the 120.
    You say you can, but you can't. That is hypocrisy. It is a fraudulent religion.
     
  20. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Well, I can give the same testimony about both of my experiences with God!
    Have I been called to manifest a miracle, no! But does that prove that he does not manifest today because I do not? NO!

    You are trying to prove or disprove the Bible by one person's testimony. Stick to the scriptures!

    You have one word...out of one chapter...out of one book...out of the whole Bible to prove your theory! I have gives dozens! Stick to scriptures to prove your theory!
    Let the greater weight of scriptures be the proof!
     
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