Romans 5:12-19 and the source of sin and death in humanity

Paul was saying the Law shows us to be sinners, The Law declared us guilty sinners, not made us who were already sinners to sin

 

How is He doing this,? but to be Human as were were made human

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

you are correct, this is opposite of Humanism that blames Adam .

Does God punish unjustly? no,
Does He judge the iniquity of the Father to the Son? Does He charge the sin of the Father to the Son?

Romans 5 19 "made " is not create not kathistēmi


to set, place, put

1. to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
   
2. to appoint one to administer an office
   
3. to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
   
4. to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
   
5. to conduct or bring to a certain place
   
6. to show or exhibit one's self
   
   1. come forward as
      

We were not created to be sinners but "appointed" to be sinners. by the LAW. As we are condemned already , but compared to the Law shows our guilt

Rom 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

We have to consider all evidence shown in all scripture not single out one verse ignoring other and original meanings

We error develope doctrine from Translations , especially English

 

Brother, let's follow the train to the station...

Adam was created in the Image of God *to some degree* and he wound up Sinning.

We are Created in the Image of Christ/God to a fuller/complete degree and we will never sin again (after glorified perfection).

Those are TWO totally different creations.

So, you want to bear the image of Adam, Pre Fall? Not me brother. I will be bearing the Image of Christ/God at His coming.

 

The Redeemed sinners right?

 

Brother, i do appreciate your zeal for the Word and your ability to express your thoughts clearly. You definitely have a gift. I believe we will have to, as you say, agree to disagree agreeably. May God use your teaching gift to produce much fruit for the Glory of Our King and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

no, why do you blane Adam for your sin?

You did not exist in Adam because sin is spiritual not physical ,
Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Ezekial and Romans are reference sinners the same

Who declared you guilty through Adam?

 

Adam, while in a sinless state, still could and did sin and Fall, but Jesus was not able to do that, and neither shall we once glorified!

 

God declares all of us guilty in the fall of Adam, save for Christ, as Paul stated, the first Adam is over all lost, while Second Adam over all redeemed. Either in Adam or in Christ now!

 

God declared that all save for Jesus Himself were seen as being in the fall , so all of us save for Jesus would be born in agility and sinful and lost condition/state before God!

 

Here is my take on this issue; I believe that the term "original sin" is a misnomer, and should really be termed "original death." It is DEATH that was passed in Romans 5, not sin. When it says "by one man many were made sinners, just as by one man many will be made righteous" do we suppose that those who are being made righteous have any say or part to play in the process? Are there any pre-requisites to those made righteous by the one man, Jesus Christ? Yes, they must have faith. So similarly we can say that BECAUSE of one man's actions, many will be made righteous, and because of this comparison we can say that "because of one man's actions - Adam - many will become sinners" but that latter statement (as the former) does not necessarily exclude the possibility of volitional action on the affected.

So my take is thus; because of Adam's sin, God judged the universe CORPORATELY. God cursed the earth with death (for dust you are and to dust you will return), he did not curse the earth with sin. It is Adam's original death which produces in us the sin nature.

Jhn 8:34 NASB
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Heb 2:14-15 NASB
14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

1Jo 4:18 NASB
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.​

I believe it is death and the fear of death which makes us slaves to sin and the Sin Nature. Conversely, it is the living Holy Spirit of God in us that makes the Divine Nature accessible to us. Yet, at the indwelling of the Holy Spirit our spirit is alive, yet our body is dead in sin. So the believer is of dual natures.

Rom 8:10 NASB
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Rom 7:24-25 NASB
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.​

You need to use a chart to plot out all the sides and points in Romans 5 to understand it. Once you do, a pattern emerges. This pattern makes a lot of sense if you apply the notion that Adam's death was a "global" or "universal" or "corporate" judgement and that it applies to all. Yet, remember "death spread to all men because all sinned." Conceptualize it this way... Adam's sin earned the universe a corporate condemnation. Yet, this corporate judgement has always been a JUST judgement because ALL HAVE SINNED (individually) and deserved that judgement.

Rev 5:4-5 NASB
4 Then I [began] to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; 5 and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."​

That is... until Jesus comes. He WAS sinless. He rendered the corporate judgement UNJUST! He necessitated a repeal of Adam's corporate judgement in lieu of individual judgments.

Acts 24:15
having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

John 5:28
“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Daniel 12:1
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.​

I was thinking one day... you know, if all of us are guilty of sin "in Adam" than simply forgiving Adam's one sin would "forgive" the whole world. Then I thought ... yeah, but the next person would just sin and screw it all up again... then it dawned on me.... that's kind of what happened. Just as Adam's sin brought death into a world where it didn't exist, so too Christ's righteousness brought life into a world where it did not exist.

1Co 15:21-22 NASB
21 For since by a man [came] death, by a man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​

Just as Adam's sin brought death to ALL men, so too does Christ's righteousness bring resurrection to ALL men (both sinners and saints alike). Once resurrected from the first death - or shall we say once Adam's corporate judgement is repealed - then all will be judged again as individuals and THAT second judgement is where we can inherit Christ's righteousness and have it applied to us on the basis of whether or not we had faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. The ones in Christ will be resurrected to eternal life, and the ones without faith will be resurrected to a judgment and a second death.