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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Because the word is foreknew, not foresaw.

    I didn't put words in your mouth. Note the question mark at the end of my sentence.
     
    #221 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
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  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    And what is your definition of "foreknew"?

    Because in SovereignGrace's example there is no difference in meaning between foreknew and foresaw.
     
    #222 InTheLight, Mar 27, 2019
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    God speaks through him
     
    #223 loDebar, Mar 27, 2019
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Now that is an interesting. While the mode of divine knowledge has been argued to be the same (between Arminianism and Open Theism, not "non-Calvinism" and Open Theism), I've never seen anyone go so far as to even suggest that the default position to non-Calvinism is open theism.

    Are you able to defend the claim?
     
    #224 JonC, Mar 27, 2019
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I suspect the fact that Hezekiah did not say "wait, God - You said..." at least proves he wasn't a Calvinist. :Laugh
     
    #225 JonC, Mar 27, 2019
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    He knew that person beforehand. It is talking about the knowledge of the person. Being intimately acquainted with that person.

    Context means things. It doesn't say this: For those whom he foreknew the choice they would make.

    Know it says those (the people) whom He foreknew. He predestined those. Those that he predestined, he also called. Those he called he justified.

    In this one section of Scripture alone we see sovereign election as well as irresistible grace.
     
    #226 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
  7. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    This is not a knowledge of future but a previous relationship then HE places that person in a human body as Jesus is, then places that person in a place and time TO CALL TO SALVATION

    Heb 2:14

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
     
    #227 loDebar, Mar 27, 2019
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Nope, God knows all and his scripture does not need to point that out. This is not predestination to Salvation but to being a Human, Then being CALLED,

    Calling to Salvation is not election

    Sorry for jumping in , but this might above your level of training.
     
    #228 loDebar, Mar 27, 2019
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    I've already answered this in part in another thread but saw then your have your mind set. I figured then you've apparently said it enough times that it would be hard to go back and examine facts openly. I'll just say for one to reason that Arminius was a Calvinist he must ignore a heck of a lot of reasoning why he wasn't. It also takes a lot of twisting the Calvinist position to come up with such a conclusion but I can see how high your confidence level is that you may not be disputed in this "fact". That said, it's not all bad that you would feel the need, as perhaps apparently you believe so did Edwards, to mesh Arminianism with Calvinist but really Jonc wouldn't it be easier just if you gave up on the Calvinist position. :Whistling

    ;)
     
    #229 Benjamin, Mar 27, 2019
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Limited atonement comes from scripture.
     
    #230 Reynolds, Mar 27, 2019
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  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You remind me of the kids right out of seminary on their Calvin crusades. (I don't mean that bad)
     
    #231 Reynolds, Mar 27, 2019
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am surprised "semi-pelagian" has not been said 400 times in this thread. I am sure it's coming.
     
    #232 Reynolds, Mar 27, 2019
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    G
    God is not limited.
    He is not willing that any should perish. Unfortunately many refuse
     
    #233 loDebar, Mar 27, 2019
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Gonna need to see some exegetical work on that one. That makes no sense.

    Then what is election? Scriptural support please.

    You really need to stop with the ad hominem attacks.
     
    #234 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The problem is you are applying the Synod of Dort, which occured after Arminius died, to the man. At the time of his death he was a Calvinistic professor at a Calvinistic institution holding doctrine that fell into Calvinistic theology. Therefore he was a Calvinist when he died.

    Your history seems a bit skewed. (Calvin was not alive when the Synod took place either).

    Your argument is like arguing Luke could not have been a physician because he could not pass the medical board today.
     
    #235 JonC, Mar 27, 2019
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We've said it just without using the term. A lot of people probably don't even know what that means.
     
    #236 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Context...
     
    #237 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Nah. We believe God knows the future.
     
    #238 Reynolds, Mar 27, 2019
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Oh...the more fun part is Calvin did not affirm all 5 points either.....as they were post Calvin and the argument over the "scope of the Atonement" was not an issue of his time. Calvinism is just much dependent on Beza as it is Calvin.

    I don't hold the Calvinist position.
     
    #239 JonC, Mar 27, 2019
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    If you don't mean that bad, how exactly do you mean it? You are basically calling me a cage calvinist.
     
    #240 Reformed1689, Mar 27, 2019
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