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Featured Does God Ordain Our Sins?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by ThyWordIsTruth, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Then the standard of “loose steering” would apply to the Westminster and LBC, also.

    Humankind can make choices concerning that offered and available. Some choices are good and right.

    Humankind cannot choose righteousness, for that is an endowment of mercy and God’s choice.
     
    #61 agedman, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Incomplete.

    Because our “old” is still part of us, we remain in rebellion and “stiff necked.” Did not Paul state that the fleshly desires were to be put down on a daily basis?

    The believer is to submit to the new creation, yet incomplete until that believer has crossed over.

    It is in that submission, expression of devotion in the midst of cleansing are found.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We Calvinists agree that even the saved must repent and confess their know sins to the Lord !
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You are describing Allah in Islam,. as he ordains the sins and always causes what must happen!
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NCPB)
     
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Any choice you ever made was the effect of the reason God sent for you to base it on. Good or bad.
     
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    1 John
    8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    So, tell me scholar, how do yo bring reconciliation to the seeming disparity between that which you offered and what I offered?

    Same book.
    Same author.

    So both must be true.

    Bring your wisdom and show how these verses are to be accurately received.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Explain.
     
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

    7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

    7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

    7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

    I believe this answers the OP... Who is the inward man, the born again man who doesn't sin... Why not?... Its the Holy Spirit, Christ in you the hope of glory... Brother Glen:)
     
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  10. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Although I can identify with this passage wasn't it addressed to them that know the law and not necessarily to me?

    "Know ye not brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) ..." Romans 7:1
     
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Nope.

    “All Scripture is profitable ...”
     
  12. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Oh, man. Am I in trouble!
     
  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    No you're not, you're learning... Brother Glen:)

    Btw... Romans 8, gets better

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
     
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  14. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. However, it's this part of the 8:1 verse that has been the problem for many years in my life with Christ: "... who walk not after the flesh..."
    I choose to sin but am I going to blame God for that choice because He has ordained it?
    Don't think so.
     
    #74 SGO, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Says who?... Its not in my Bible!... Brother Glen:)

    James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

    1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    To the OP:

    [Romans 1:24-32 NASB]
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

    1. Who is responsible for “the lusts of their hearts“, “degrading passions”, and “depraved mind”?
    2. Was God in control, or was God not in control?
     
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 1:24

    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
    Not by putting any into them, but by leaving them to the pollution of their nature; by withdrawing his providential restraints from them, and by giving them up to judicial hardness:

    through the lusts of their own hearts.

    The heart of man is the source of all wickedness; the lusts that dwell there are many, and these tend to uncleanness of one sort or another: by it here is meant particularly bodily uncleanness, since it is said they were given up

    to dishonour their own bodies between themselves;

    either alone, or with others; so that as they changed the glory of God, and dishonoured him, he left them to dishonour themselves by doing these things which were reproachful and scandalous to human nature... John Gill

    Brother Glen:)
     
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  19. ThyWordIsTruth

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    If, as you say that God "ordains the sins" that we carry out, then God IS the "author and cause" of our sinful actions, and wrong for Him to punish us for the actions that HE ordained, we do! There is no other way in understaning the English word "ordain", if there is, please give the meaning here. Your theology is totally unbiblical!
     
  20. ThyWordIsTruth

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    But, what exactly do you Calvinists mean by the word "repent"?
     
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