Does God Ordain Our Sins?

[agedman]

God causes the end from the beginning. A loose steering wheel in the hands of fool partly controls the universe in your estimation. Instead, it is God who makes the fool and provides the reasons he bases his choice of driving a car with loose steering.

The Westminster and LBC call it secondary causes.

Then the standard of “loose steering” would apply to the Westminster and LBC, also.

Humankind can make choices concerning that offered and available. Some choices are good and right.

Humankind cannot choose righteousness, for that is an endowment of mercy and God’s choice.

 

[agedman]

It is the new birth that gives us the desire to repent. It's our nature to repent.

Incomplete.

Because our “old” is still part of us, we remain in rebellion and “stiff necked.” Did not Paul state that the fleshly desires were to be put down on a daily basis?

The believer is to submit to the new creation, yet incomplete until that believer has crossed over.

It is in that submission, expression of devotion in the midst of cleansing are found.

 

[Yeshua1]

ALL Christians who sin after they are saved, must repent (say they are truly sorry) for those sins on a daily basis.

"And his sons would go and feast in their houses, each on his appointed day, and would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly. (Job 1:4-5)

" If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10)

We Calvinists agree that even the saved must repent and confess their know sins to the Lord !

 

[Yeshua1]

so this means that all of our sinful actions, though hated by God, are actually God "controlling" that we carry them out! Maybe the God of the Bible is not Holy by His very nature!

You are describing Allah in Islam,. as he ordains the sins and always causes what must happen!

 

[1689Dave]

Incomplete.

Because our “old” is still part of us, we remain in rebellion and “stiff necked.” Did not Paul state that the fleshly desires were to be put down on a daily basis?

The believer is to submit to the new creation, yet incomplete until that believer has crossed over.

It is in that submission, expression of devotion in the midst of cleansing are found.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NCPB)

 

[1689Dave]

Then the standard of “loose steering” would apply to the Westminster and LBC, also.

Humankind can make choices concerning that offered and available. Some choices are good and right.

Humankind cannot choose righteousness, for that is an endowment of mercy and God’s choice.

Any choice you ever made was the effect of the reason God sent for you to base it on. Good or bad.

 

[agedman]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (NCPB)

1 John

8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
​

So, tell me scholar, how do yo bring reconciliation to the seeming disparity between that which you offered and what I offered?

Same book.
Same author.

So both must be true.

Bring your wisdom and show how these verses are to be accurately received.

 

[agedman]

Any choice you ever made was the effect of the reason God sent for you to base it on. Good or bad.

Explain.

 

[tyndale1946]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

I believe this answers the OP... Who is the inward man, the born again man who doesn't sin... Why not?... Its the Holy Spirit, Christ in you the hope of glory... Brother Glen

 

[SGO]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

I believe this answers the OP... Who is the inward man, the born again man who doesn't sin... Why not?... Its the Holy Spirit, Christ in you the hope of glory... Brother Glen

Although I can identify with this passage wasn't it addressed to them that know the law and not necessarily to me?

"Know ye not brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) ..." Romans 7:1

 

[agedman]

Although I can identify with this passage wasn't it addressed to them that know the law and not necessarily to me?

"Know ye not brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) ..." Romans 7:1

Nope.

“All Scripture is profitable ...”

 

[SGO]

Nope.

“All Scripture is profitable ...”

Oh, man. Am I in trouble!

 

[tyndale1946]

Oh, man. Am I in trouble!

No you're not, you're learning... Brother Glen

Btw... Romans 8, gets better

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[SGO]

No you're not, you're learning... Brother Glen

Btw... Romans 8, gets better

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Thank you. However, it's this part of the 8:1 verse that has been the problem for many years in my life with Christ: "... who walk not after the flesh..."
I choose to sin but am I going to blame God for that choice because He has ordained it?
Don't think so.

 

[tyndale1946]

Thank you. However, it's this part of the 8:1 verse that has been the problem for many years in my life with Christ: "... who walk not after the flesh..."
I choose to sin but am I going to blame God for that choice because He has ordained it?

Says who?... Its not in my Bible!... Brother Glen

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 

[atpollard]

To the OP:

[Romans 1:24-32 NASB]
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

1. Who is responsible for “the lusts of their hearts“, “degrading passions”, and “depraved mind”?
   
2. Was God in control, or was God not in control?

 

[SGO]

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts

 

[tyndale1946]

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts

Romans 1:24

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness
Not by putting any into them, but by leaving them to the pollution of their nature; by withdrawing his providential restraints from them, and by giving them up to judicial hardness:

through the lusts of their own hearts.
The heart of man is the source of all wickedness; the lusts that dwell there are many, and these tend to uncleanness of one sort or another: by it here is meant particularly bodily uncleanness, since it is said they were given up

to dishonour their own bodies between themselves;
either alone, or with others; so that as they changed the glory of God, and dishonoured him, he left them to dishonour themselves by doing these things which were reproachful and scandalous to human nature... John Gill

Brother Glen

 

[ThyWordIsTruth]

You are describing Allah in Islam,. as he ordains the sins and always causes what must happen!

If, as you say that God "ordains the sins" that we carry out, then God IS the "author and cause" of our sinful actions, and wrong for Him to punish us for the actions that HE ordained, we do! There is no other way in understaning the English word "ordain", if there is, please give the meaning here. Your theology is totally unbiblical!

 

[ThyWordIsTruth]

We Calvinists agree that even the saved must repent and confess their know sins to the Lord !

But, what exactly do you Calvinists mean by the word "repent"?