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Featured The problem of sin .

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Oct 30, 2020.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No verse says that, it is a mistaken belief. Ransom happened at the cross, where the redemption price was paid, but only when individuals are placed in Christ are they redeemed.
     
    #81 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not what it says.
     
    #82 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The ransom was paid, thus it is finished.
     
    #83 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    1 john 2 how do we reconcile these verses also then ? .2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    2 peter 2 .1
    But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction
     
    #84 Barry Johnson, Nov 3, 2020
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Again, nothing in scripture says that. To receive the reconciliation, we must be placed in Christ. Yes, we tell sinners, Christ has died for their sins, which is true, but inorder to receive that reconciliation, we must be placed into Christ. Remember, redemption is in Christ. Not outside of Christ.
     
    #85 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have explained it, so anyone could understand. Why does God send people to Hades? Because they do not abide in God's wrath? Of course not. They abide in God's wrath because they are not "in Christ."
     
    #86 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have shown that it is impossible for your view to be reconciled with the passage. Only when we are "together with Him" are we redeemed.
     
    #87 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Christ = propitiation = means of appeasement. Not, has appeased God.
    Yes, Christ's sacrifice on the cross paid the ransom for all mankind, those to be saved, and those never to be saved.
     
    #88 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    When you say 'redeemed ' do you mean atoned for ?
     
    #89 Barry Johnson, Nov 3, 2020
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    So it's kinda like 'future potentials '?
     
    #90 Barry Johnson, Nov 3, 2020
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Could it be rather that people be sent to the bad place ( that was created for the devil and his angels because they won't be glorified without receiving Jesus?
     
    #91 Barry Johnson, Nov 3, 2020
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sir, I have defined all my terms. Redeemed means placed in Christ by God.
    The word "atonement" appears in the KJV, but the NASB translated the same word as reconciliation. See Romans 5:11 which says we have now received the reconciliation.

    Some try to conflate two very separate actions by God.

    1) Christ laying down His life as a ransom for all, as the Lamb of God, on the cross.

    2) God placing an individual into Christ, which is their redemption.
     
    #92 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Christ paid the ransom or redemption price on the cross, but no one is redeemed until God places the individual into Christ.

    What was accomplished on the cross?
    Christ became the means of salvation for all humankind. Anyone and everyone God places into Christ is saved forever.
    Two very different actions by God.
     
    #93 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why not address what I said. If you have been placed in Christ, you have been redeemed and your sin burden has been removed. If you are not "in Christ" you abide in God's wrath. John 3:36
     
    #94 Van, Nov 3, 2020
  15. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [Tit 3:9 KJV] 9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
     
    #95 Wesley Briggman, Nov 3, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Nonsense.
     
    #96 Iconoclast, Nov 3, 2020
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    1¶But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
    In what way were these false prophets bought?
     
    #97 Barry Johnson, Nov 4, 2020
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Col 1 .20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
    I'n what way did he make peace by the blood of his cross? and in what way did he reconcile all things to himself?
     
    #98 Barry Johnson, Nov 4, 2020
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    A men brother.
    MB
     
    #99 MB, Nov 4, 2020
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I specifically addressed this verse?
     
    #100 Van, Nov 4, 2020
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