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There is not much farther to go when you start having faith healers and the concept that if you plant the seed of faith you will have all your heart's desires to then going on to say that God wants you to be rich and prosperous. The prosperity gospel is a natural outgrowth of much of...

Similar thinking as you... also since God created Eden as a primordial temple to dwell with man... and continued in the tabernacle and temple of Israel... further continued w/ Jesus as the new temple w/ man... and later extended that to God's church being the temple w/ the Spirit sent to dwell...

You mentioned healing and positive confession... which leads right into the prosperity gospel.

I don't see how this is different from what I put. Certainly more drawn out, but it still says the same thing. I said, "The non calvie view is that God created a world w/ sin as an option." You similarly said, "Because God is good, he must create us with free will, and free will makes it...

I have a similar answer, although I'd ask for clarification whether there is really much difference in saying that he is the ultimate cause of sin and he is the author of sin??? And how is he not the author of sin if he pre-ordained it (scripted it out; i.e. wrote it or authored it)??? I feel...

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of my own wording and probably could have nuanced things better. But the essential idea is there I think. And the concept that God creates all things... must it not also include things good and bad? If we want to ascribe to God ultimate source for everything, and say...

I'm not sure if that is correct or not. I simply don't know. I'm pondering this for myself. However, the only logical conclusion for Calvinists who promote the full sovereignty of God is that God not only ordained sin but in some way or shape is the ultimate cause for it (directly or...

cause of sin??? In dealing with the problem of evil, I've heard it argued from the Calvinist point of view that God's design of a world of sin and in need of redemption is the way he can demonstrate his own righteousness, love, and wrath; without the presence of sin this would be impossible...

So just to clarify... you said "sure" to the question if an unelect person could desire God. But then you later said "the Father draws only the elect." Thus I question that what you were saying was consistent w/ calvinistic beliefs. I think you confused the term "unelect" w/ unsaved. The OP...

Are you saying that the Father draws the "unelect"??? I guess we'd also have to know if "unelect" is the same as "non-elect". I would say yes. So again I ask, you are saying that it is consistent calvinism to say that someone will desire God b/c the Father is drawing someone who is unelect...

If you really knew the system of Calvinism, then by the very fact that they are not elect means that (1) Jesus didn't accept him (the real issue) & (2) that person would never "accept" Jesus (even an impotent one who needs acceptance). You are painting a picture and titling it Calvinism, but it...

I don't mean to offend there, but that is a huge distinction with a major difference. And honestly, we do not all have the same understanding of what the gospel is.

Desiring salvation does not equal desiring God. Rich young ruler is one who desired salvation (and wealth) but did not desire Jesus enough to follow him amongst all else. The gospel is not getting heaven but getting Jesus. He is the goal. Anything less is not the gospel!

That's what I'm saying. The church I used in the OP as an example basically has 3 armed men (in uniform if memory serves) weilding the shotgun in hand or hanging in front of them. You have to pass through a gate with a makeshift door to be let in. I just got a weird impression from that point on.

No... the word simply means an assembly. Granted, in this case it is an assembly of believers. But hopefully the gospel is being preached for the occasional visitor. But if I can't bring in a vagabond through the gates b/c he might be a thief... what does that say about that church? Again...

I know it seems like a logical necessity, but why does temptability have to infer susceptability??? You can wave a gun and try to entice me all you want to shoot my wife (temptation), but there is no way I would be susceptible to such a thing. Sin goes against the character of God. It is...

The visible shotguns certainly send a message. And that is another point. And I see the reason why. But aren't the people we are keeping out the very same people we are to be reaching??? So in essence we are pushing them away when we do this (we as in this church I'm referring to)? But I...

That is a semi-point... this church has the appearance of a major corporation than a church. It definitely does not convey "please come and worship with us and learn to walk worthy of the gospel with us."

Still not seeing much interaction on the main idea of the OP: Is it right or wrong for a church to have armed guards at the entrance of a Sunday church service? In other words, is it ok for security guards (w/ their shotguns hanging in front of them in a threatening way) to admit or dismiss...

I think many are commenting on something different than I had in mind. I'm not so much concerned w/ packing heat at church. My dad was a cop. He always carried wherever he went. I'm asking would it be right for churches to have armed security at the entrance gate? In other words, is it ok...