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So, if I may shorten your answer it appears you are saying that believers submit in the same manner that they are saved...in that God is sovereign over their submission but they still are the ones who do it. Thus, if a believer doesn't submit then the ultimate reason is because God didn't grant...

Well, if one group of Christians makes a false claim that the rest of the Christians disagree with then it only makes sense that they would unite behind that one point of contrast. Especially on a debate forum where that is the point being debated. It's not as if we don't have our own...

No, I'm saying that true faith will result in works, just like James did. Intellectual consent (belief without obedience) is like that of the demons and doesn't save. Belief that leads to obedience is saving faith. The CHOICE is not in the believing (just as you argued), but we do choose to...

And what about that sow over there whose nature has been irresistibly changed to where he no longer wants to wallow? Why is that sow accepting it while this sow rejects? ONE SOW WAS CHOSEN AND THE OTHER WASN'T. And since we are all sinners should we conclude that all reject Christ...

The problem with all these analogies is the same as your first error. You are comparing 'sinners' to 'dogs, cats, sows, doves, sheep,' but you seem to forget we are all born 'sinners.' Thus, when one asks, "Why does one sinner rejects Christ while another accepts him?" (in the Calvinistic...

You may be right in that the Calvinistic system is more defined around a singular concept, but the opposite is true in that the unifying point of non-Calvinists is that we reject the Calvinistic belief that God preselects some to be effectually saved leaving the rest to certain condemnation due...

But why do some believers submit more than others? That is the question I'm asking... What makes one believer more submissive than another? God or the believer? Which is ultimately caused by ____________. (fill in the blank, hint: put God or man) Why?

Right, there must be the willingness to act in accordance with what you know to be true. Demons (or the lost) may know Jesus is the son of God but refuse to follow him as Lord of their lives.

:laugh: Still rather debate a straw-man than me, I see? Even the demons believe, so by this standard I guess you think they too will be saved. We are talking about the CHOICE to trade what you KNOW to be true in for a lie. I agree with your assessment that we don't have to CHOOSE to...

Its called foreshadowing: Moses is the redeemer just as Jesus is the redeemer. Israel is being exiled from slavery in Egypt just as the world is being exiled from the slavery of sin. Pharaoh is hardened to accomplish the passover just as the Jews are hardened to accomplish the Passover. Ok...

Are you a politician? ;) That was a really long way to not answer a very simple question. I liked what you said. I would even agree with much of what you said, but it doesn't really address the question. If you agree that there are some believers who are more obedient/faithful than others...

But, I'm trying to see if you distinguish this 'work' from what Paul refers to as 'works.' Because if you believe faith is a work then by necessity you must believe we are saved 'by grace through work." How can you avoid that?

I don't believe anyone argues that WE are doing the 'limiting,' Luke. Arminians don't embrace openness theology anymore so than Calvinists embrace hyperism. They may appear more 'logically consistent' to their opponents, but that doesn't mean we embrace them. Just because MLB pitcher Cliff...

It think much clarity comes by looking at the verses leading up to the verse in question: 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made...

Well then this establishes a precedence (or at an example) of God granting something (a gift) that men refused to exercise. They had the capacity but chose not to use what was granted. Now, I understand that is in regard to those saved, but allow me to show you how this poses a problem for...

This is referring to God's work of reconciliation by which he appeals through his church (us) to all mankind, "Be reconciled to God," "Repent and believe and you will be saved." Etc. He is calling all who are weak and heaven laden to come to him...and he desires for all to come and be saved...

That begs the question by presuming the point up for debate, now doesn't it? Paul's rebuke is not to my objection, but to the objection of a Jew chosen for the common/ignoble use of being a hardened pot, while Paul (of the same clay, Israel) was chosen for the noble purpose of being an...

Amen! Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees whose hearts have grown calloused (Read Acts 28:23-28). Read the context: "39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to...

"All things are possible to him who has faith." -Jesus

Luke, What you seem to be missing in your analysis is that men can and do trade what they know to be true in for lies. People do this ALL THE TIME. As illustrated before, if someone accused your son of stealing but you just didn't believe them and so they showed you a surveillance video...