Can The Case Be Made That Christ Died For All?

[AustinC]

I consider it's rejection making it impossible for any lost person to know Christ died for any lost persons.

This is your definition of general redemption?
I am not following your thought.
Are you saying that there is a one time chance to hear God's sales pitch and if you don't jump on the invitation the first time around, then it is impossible to choose afterwards?
Again, I am not following your thought here.

 

[Revmitchell]

If the debt has been paid, yet the payment is still required, that is not justice.

What payment are you talking about that would still be required?

 

[Silverhair]

No, because no Scripture says Christ paid for the sins of every individual. And if he did, then there is a justice problem isn't there?

You must have a special kind of bible, one just for calvinists. The real bible has
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[Silverhair]

Let's try the Bible, a standard work where either general redemption is expressed or it isn't expressed.
Where is the idea that men are" generally" redeemed found in the Bible?

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[37818]

Then you will have yo change what you say and hold to as that is what is main stream calvinism.

I do not understand argument here.

 

[37818]

This is your definition of general redemption?
I am not following your thought.
Are you saying that there is a one time chance to hear God's sales pitch and if you don't jump on the invitation the first time around, then it is impossible to choose afterwards?
Again, I am not following your thought here.

Without Christ having.bought the whole of all mankind paying for their sins. The lost cannot know Christ died for them before they believe.

 

[Reformed]

And reformed folks get the context wrong just as they do with John 15:16. In the acts passage with issue of the day was were Gentiles also appointed to receive salvation just as the Jews were. The Jews believed that only they were appointed to salvation. In Acts 13 many Gentiles came to the faith. It is being pointed out that Gentiles also are grafted in to be saved. Trying to make this passage about individualistic salvation is incorrect.

I do understand the context, but Acts 13:48 makes the point that only those appointed unto eternal life believed. Not every Gentile believed, but only those who were appointed unto eternal life.

 

[Reformed1689]

You must have a special kind of bible, one just for calvinists. The real bible has
1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Wonderful verse, it's in my Bible too. What I notice it does not say is this:

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for every man and woman that has ever walked the earth.

Yep, doesn't say that, so the burden would be on you to make it say that.

 

[Reformed1689]

What payment are you talking about that would still be required?

Do you not believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement?

 

[Reformed1689]

Right, I do not veil the fact that calvinism is a errant theology.

No what you do not veil is that you are a humanist.

 

[Reformed1689]

Then you did not read the post.

Believe me, I did. You do not argue against the DoG, rather, you argue against a fantastical version of it made up by yourself and not what is actually believed or argued.

 

[Reformed1689]

They have the option of receiving the free gift unlike your theology where it is thrust upon like it or not.

Even if that were true, that still doesn't solve the problem of the debt payment being required twice for those who do not believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

Then you will have yo change what you say and hold to as that is what is main stream calvinism.

Asking other Calvies here, do any of you believe that we are saved before conversion?

 

[Reformed1689]

I consider it's rejection making it impossible for any lost person to know Christ died for any lost persons.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

 

[Reformed1689]

Without Christ having.bought the whole of all mankind paying for their sins. The lost cannot know Christ died for them before they believe.

I don't tell ANYONE Christ died for their sin, because I do not know that to be true. I tell them Christ died for those who would believe in him.

 

[Revmitchell]

I do understand the context, but Acts 13:48 makes the point that only those appointed unto eternal life believed. Not every Gentile believed, but only those who were appointed unto eternal life.

Those appointed were the Jews and Gentiles not just Jews. Nothing about individualistic salvation

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you not believe in Penal Substitutionary Atonement?

This questions leaves me without understanding

 

[37818]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Of course you don't.

 

[37818]

I don't tell ANYONE Christ died for their sin, because I do not know that to be true. I tell them Christ died for those who would believe in him.

And there is no Scripture that actually teaches that.

 

[AustinC]

Asking other Calvies here, do any of you believe that we are saved before conversion?

No.
God calls us from death to new life and in so doing, saves us by his gracious act.
We immediately respond in action of repentance and faith to believe.