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Could some of your children be not elect of God?

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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
George Antonios said:
It comes down to loving a false doctrine [because it grants a sense of deep humility and lessened conviction for not preaching the gospel] more than family.
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Jesus said "those who love son or daughter more than me are not worthy of me". How does this square with what you are saying?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Particular said:
God gave that person faith, which is why it is credited as righteousness.
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Absurd claim, because if God gave a person faith, that faith would already be righteous. No, the only way to see it is to say our faith, as worthless as it may be, may be credited (or not) by God as righteousness, and if God does, then He puts the person spiritually into Christ.
 
C

Christopher m

New Member
Particular said:
For by grace you are saved
through faith
which is not of yourself
It is the gift of God
so that no one can boast.

Since God gifts us faith, his gift is righteous and he credits this faith as righteousness.

It's all God's work. God receives all the glory and the praise.
No???
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I think God grants us the grace/power to believe. some will not believe, others will. "Through faith" is our part. So yes, Everything is a gift from God so no man can boast. God gives man the power to believe, some will use that graceful gift and some won't. However, God is gracious and provides warnings for those who reject that gift. Without this gift of power, no one would have the ability to believe, but because of Gods grace and mercy, everyone has the choice.

Revelation 22: 17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Re: The word "foreknowledge".



Ah yes, a #1.
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Nope that is not a number 1, that is simple definitions. According to BDAG the greek word for foreknowledge is literally being used here to say "choose before." DBL says the same thing, to select in advance.

Christopher m said:
I think God grants us the grace/power to believe. some will not believe, others will. "Through faith" is our part. So yes, Everything is a gift from God so no man can boast.
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You contradict yourself. You say faith is our part, but then say everything is a gift. So is faith that gift or not?
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Absurd claim, because if God gave a person faith, that faith would already be righteous. No, the only way to see it is to say our faith, as worthless as it may be, may be credited (or not) by God as righteousness, and if God does, then He puts the person spiritually into Christ.
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We don't have faith until God gives it to us.
Dead people don't have faith.
 
Particular

Particular

Well-Known Member
Christopher m said:
I think God grants us the grace/power to believe. some will not believe, others will. "Through faith" is our part. So yes, Everything is a gift from God so no man can boast. God gives man the power to believe, some will use that graceful gift and some won't. However, God is gracious and provides warnings for those who reject that gift. Without this gift of power, no one would have the ability to believe, but because of Gods grace and mercy, everyone has the choice.

Revelation 22: 17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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If God gives us faith, by grace, we cannot say no to it. We don't have the power to reject what God has already done.
If a person buys you a brand new Corvette, but you refuse to drive it, does it make the car any less yours?
No. It just means you refuse to use the gift you have been given. We all are guilty of not trusting what God has given us. But, that doesn't remove the gift.
When God wills to do something for us, he does what he wills to do. Best example is Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.
 
C

Christopher m

New Member
davidtaylorjr said:
Nope that is not a number 1, that is simple definitions. According to BDAG the greek word for foreknowledge is literally being used here to say "choose before." DBL says the same thing, to select in advance.

You contradict yourself. You say faith is our part, but then say everything is a gift. So is faith that gift or not?
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God created all, and gave us the ability to choose. So its all a "gift". That said, you and I are not robots programmed by God so to love and praise Him. He wants us to choose to love and praise him. We are set apart from every other created thing by the gift of grace and faith. What makes you part of the elect? How do you know that you are?
 
C

Christopher m

New Member
Particular said:
If God gives us faith, by grace, we cannot say no to it. We don't have the power to reject what God has already done.
If a person buys you a brand new Corvette, but you refuse to drive it, does it make the car any less yours?
No. It just means you refuse to use the gift you have been given. We all are guilty of not trusting what God has given us. But, that doesn't remove the gift.
When God wills to do something for us, he does what he wills to do. Best example is Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.
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Then we are just robots. Why did God suffer the cross?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Christopher m said:
God created all, and gave us the ability to choose. So its all a "gift". That said, you and I are not robots programmed by God so to love and praise Him. He wants us to choose to love and praise him. We are set apart from every other created thing by the gift of grace and faith. What makes you part of the elect? How do you know that you are?
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I believe in Total Depravity so I do not believe everyone has the ability to choose. Freedom to choose, yes, but not ability.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
davidtaylorjr said:
Thank you for posting three separate sources that AGREE with me. Did you mean to do that? :p

Foreknowledge does not equal foresight.
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They say the meaning of the greek word is "to know before" or "pre-arrange". That doesn't mean to "know someone."
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
They say the meaning of the greek word is "to know before" or "pre-arrange". That doesn't mean to "know someone."
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To know before. The verse says those he foreknew. Foreknew describes the relationship to those. So YES it does, in context of Romans 8:29 mean to know someone. To select someone. To pre-arrange for their salvation by predestination. You are solidifying my point. Thanks.
 
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