Could some of your children be not elect of God?

[Reformed1689]

David I know you are a good person have a good heart and you want to do what is right.

Objection is great news. What part of my post is false exactly?

Plenty of folks would define Calvinism altogether as "absolute attack on those that hold to Scriptural truth and characterizing us in ways that we have NEVER portrayed or expressed"

What is false? Pretty much all of it.

 

[Van]

Grace has always been the means by which God saves. Dispensationalism is not a biblical means of discerning God's work. God has never changed his gracious choosing. He expresses it with Adam and Eve and continues this grace to eternity.

When God places an individual in Christ based on crediting his or her faith as righteousness, that is a gracious choice.

 

[George Antonios]

What practical difference is their between that scenario, and a free will scenario where a child consistently rejects the gospel?

Parents will convey the gospel and pray that God will save them.

The difference is hope. And fervour. And being able to tell your children, as a matter of certaintly, that God loves them. See below.

 

[George Antonios]

I confidently told my children that Jesus loves them when I put them to bed. But, I have often asked a Calvinist do you lie to your children when you put them to bed at night and tell them that Jesus loves them or did you tell them your “bible truth” that you hope they are one of the lucky pre-selected few?

Wow, that is a chillingly good point.

 

[George Antonios]

Hello George! A belated warm welcome to the B.B.
May I ask you if you would advocate prayer for a Christian's unsaved children? It seems to me that such a prayer would be both useless and hypocritical. If I'm reading you right, God seems to have resigned responsibility for anyone's salvation, it's all down to their own free will.
So anyone with unsaved children must do the best he can to convince them of their need of Christ, and if that doesn't work he must look on in helpless sorrow as they wend their way to eternity. His only consolation being that God looks on equally helplessly since He has abdicated all responsibility for salvation as 3 Corinthians makes so clear

Unless he has been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of life and found his child's name missing there, for the believer in Sovereign Grace, it is the sovereignty of God that gives him hope. When all his best arguments and pleading have fallen on stony ground, he does not despair. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, God will move in his loved one's heart and bring him to Christ. In the meantime, he besieges heaven with his prayers, knowing that 'The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man [i.e. someone whom God has justified] avails much' (James 5:16).

In the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16), some labourers were hired at the start of the day, some at the ninth hour and some at the eleventh. But each one received the same reward. Note also that the labourers could do nothing to hire themselves; they could only wait for the landowner. So it is that some children of believers may resist the Holy Spirit for year after year, but like the Mounties, He always gets His man.

This is one of the saddest things I've read.

 

[George Antonios]

Of course. This seems like a question to try and catch us in some emotional trap. But it's true. There are loved ones that may not be elect.

You're one of few that actually answered the question head-on. It's an answer as divorced from the God of the Bible as one can get, but I respect the fact that you answered it honestly.

 

[George Antonios]

When you ignore your conscience and caring of your child, Satan CHEERS. Satan hated that child unconditionally from the beginning and wants you and god to kiss his feet and join him in hating that child.

Roman 9

1I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,

If I ever heard a CALVINIST sound like Paul here....... I WOULD EAT MY OWN SHOE!

Paul is ready to take their spot

If they have been damned from beyond eternity past, having God HATE them from the beginning, But your OWN good conscience IN THE HOLY SPIRIT wants them saved.


This contradiction is what we call --> If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebul.

When your own sense of mercy shows up for someone God-hated, That mercy from you is not the Devil, the Devil hates everyone. Where does this mercy and love come from?

In truth the situation is that someone is SATAN-hated not having a problem calling himself God. And the mercy come from God.

The Devil has a gun to your head, calls himself God, Say I hated your worthless child since beyond eternity past, Hate him with me, Don't let your weak sense of mercy , compassion, love get in the way of GROVELING at my feet and serving my unconditional hatred of your brothers and sisters.

Brutal words, but then again Calvinism is a brutal doctrine.

 

[George Antonios]

Not so fast. It is still the elect. Difference scenario. There is also general grace, don't forget that.

You can't be elect when you're not yet in Christ...being in Christ is the criterion.
Ephesians 1:4 simply says God chose to place in Christ those who he knew (1Pe.1:2) would believe (of their own will) in him (here the choosing happens), so as to be able to bless them.

 

[George Antonios]

Do you have Paul's heart? Would YOU take their place? Do YOU have that passion for the lost?


Who says Calvinists do not want to see the lost saved? What Calvinist has EVER said otherwise?

His point is that non-Calvinism allows for such a heart in the Spirit, and without contradiction. Whereas Calvinism does not.

 

[George Antonios]

It comes down loving God more than family in some extreme cases.

It comes down to loving a false doctrine [because it grants a sense of deep humility and lessened conviction for not preaching the gospel] more than family.

 

[canadyjd]

..... What if God, while knitting my child in my womb, hated him and condemned him to hell in my womb? What if while forming his little body inside me, God planned only for him to burn in hell and no matter what I did to raise him up in the Lord, it would of no value or use? I couldn't do that.....

I believe God is All-knowing. Do you? I believe God is All-powerful. Do you?

God knows the whole of a person's existence the moment He decides to form that little baby in the womb. He knows if they will become Christians and end up in heaven and He knows if they will end up in the lake of fire and suffer forever.

Do you doubt that?

God is All-powerful. If He desired it, He could only form babies in the womb that become Christians and go to heaven. And yet, He forms babies in the womb knowing the ultimate outcome will be the lake of fire.

Do you doubt that?

Whether you believe the doctrine of election or not, you must deny God's attributes of omniscience and omnipotence if don't believe He knows the moment He decides to create, exactly which of the children He creates will ultimately end up in the lake of fire. He chooses to create them anyway.

This OP is not about the "elect", imo, it is about judging God according to human understanding for His soveriegn choices in the creation of children in the womb.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

You can't be elect when you're not yet in Christ...being in Christ is the criterion.
Ephesians 1:4 simply says God chose to place in Christ those who he knew (1Pe.1:2) would believe (of their own will) in him (here the choosing happens), so as to be able to bless them.

You are misquoting the passage. It doesn't say God knew they would believe. It says God knew them (knew in relationship)

Peace to you

 

[Particular]

When God places an individual in Christ based on crediting his or her faith as righteousness, that is a gracious choice.

God gave that person faith, which is why it is credited as righteousness.

 

[Christopher m]

God gave that person faith, which is why it is credited as righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-9
God gives grace, believers have faith in Jesus and that is credited as righteousness. No?

 

[Particular]

Brutal words, but then again Calvinism is a brutal doctrine.

This is like saying "The Bible is a brutal book."
It's too bad you cannot see the doctrine of the Supremacy of God in scripture. It is everywhere and it is a blessing, not a brutal thing as you claim.

 

[Particular]

It comes down to loving a false doctrine [because it grants a sense of deep humility and lessened conviction for not preaching the gospel] more than family.

Not even close.
What televangelist are you listening to?

 

[Particular]

Ephesians 2:8-9
God gives grace, believers have faith in Jesus and that is credited as righteousness. No?

For by grace you are saved
through faith
which is not of yourself
It is the gift of God
so that no one can boast.

Since God gifts us faith, his gift is righteous and he credits this faith as righteousness.

It's all God's work. God receives all the glory and the praise.
No???

 

[Reformed1689]

His point is that non-Calvinism allows for such a heart in the Spirit, and without contradiction. Whereas Calvinism does not.

Which of course is not even true or real.

 

[Reformed1689]

You can't be elect when you're not yet in Christ...being in Christ is the criterion.
Ephesians 1:4 simply says God chose to place in Christ those who he knew (1Pe.1:2) would believe (of their own will) in him (here the choosing happens), so as to be able to bless them.

Nope that's not what it says.

 

[Reformed1689]

You're one of few that actually answered the question head-on. It's an answer as divorced from the God of the Bible as one can get, but I respect the fact that you answered it honestly.

It's not divorced from the God of the Bible, that IS the God of the Bible.