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Could some of your children be not elect of God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by George Antonios, Oct 9, 2019.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    What is false? Pretty much all of it.
     
    #61 Reformed1689, Oct 10, 2019
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When God places an individual in Christ based on crediting his or her faith as righteousness, that is a gracious choice.
     
    #62 Van, Oct 10, 2019
  3. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    The difference is hope. And fervour. And being able to tell your children, as a matter of certaintly, that God loves them. See below.
     
    #63 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  4. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that is a chillingly good point.
     
    #64 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  5. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    This is one of the saddest things I've read.
     
    #65 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  6. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    You're one of few that actually answered the question head-on. It's an answer as divorced from the God of the Bible as one can get, but I respect the fact that you answered it honestly.
     
    #66 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Brutal words, but then again Calvinism is a brutal doctrine.
     
    #67 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    You can't be elect when you're not yet in Christ...being in Christ is the criterion.
    Ephesians 1:4 simply says God chose to place in Christ those who he knew (1Pe.1:2) would believe (of their own will) in him (here the choosing happens), so as to be able to bless them.
     
    #68 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    His point is that non-Calvinism allows for such a heart in the Spirit, and without contradiction. Whereas Calvinism does not.
     
    #69 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    It comes down to loving a false doctrine [because it grants a sense of deep humility and lessened conviction for not preaching the gospel] more than family.
     
    #70 George Antonios, Oct 10, 2019
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I believe God is All-knowing. Do you? I believe God is All-powerful. Do you?

    God knows the whole of a person's existence the moment He decides to form that little baby in the womb. He knows if they will become Christians and end up in heaven and He knows if they will end up in the lake of fire and suffer forever.

    Do you doubt that?

    God is All-powerful. If He desired it, He could only form babies in the womb that become Christians and go to heaven. And yet, He forms babies in the womb knowing the ultimate outcome will be the lake of fire.

    Do you doubt that?

    Whether you believe the doctrine of election or not, you must deny God's attributes of omniscience and omnipotence if don't believe He knows the moment He decides to create, exactly which of the children He creates will ultimately end up in the lake of fire. He chooses to create them anyway.

    This OP is not about the "elect", imo, it is about judging God according to human understanding for His soveriegn choices in the creation of children in the womb.

    Peace to you
     
    #71 canadyjd, Oct 10, 2019
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  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You are misquoting the passage. It doesn't say God knew they would believe. It says God knew them (knew in relationship)

    Peace to you
     
    #72 canadyjd, Oct 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    God gave that person faith, which is why it is credited as righteousness.
     
    #73 Particular, Oct 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Christopher m

    Christopher m New Member

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    Ephesians 2:8-9
    God gives grace, believers have faith in Jesus and that is credited as righteousness. No?
     
    #74 Christopher m, Oct 10, 2019
  15. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    This is like saying "The Bible is a brutal book."
    It's too bad you cannot see the doctrine of the Supremacy of God in scripture. It is everywhere and it is a blessing, not a brutal thing as you claim.
     
    #75 Particular, Oct 10, 2019
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  16. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Not even close.
    What televangelist are you listening to?
     
    #76 Particular, Oct 10, 2019
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  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    For by grace you are saved
    through faith
    which is not of yourself
    It is the gift of God
    so that no one can boast.

    Since God gifts us faith, his gift is righteous and he credits this faith as righteousness.

    It's all God's work. God receives all the glory and the praise.
    No???
     
    #77 Particular, Oct 10, 2019
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  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Which of course is not even true or real.
     
    #78 Reformed1689, Oct 10, 2019
  19. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Nope that's not what it says.
     
    #79 Reformed1689, Oct 10, 2019
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  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    It's not divorced from the God of the Bible, that IS the God of the Bible.
     
    #80 Reformed1689, Oct 10, 2019
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