• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Two Wings

Well-Known Member
In studying what Jesus told us about the Last Days ... "Like the days of Noah" ... I've come to understand that this includes the nephilim.

Is it possible Judas could have been one of these?

I mean, how do you have such a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and be unable to respond to the Spirit ... unless you have no spirit.

7 of the 8 people boarding the Ark were 100% human. Ham's wife wasn't. They beget Canaan; father of the 7 tribes The Son later smites ahead of the Joshua led Hebrews.

I'm not stating as fact ... but reconciling the free will vice predestination in this context brings me to this possibility.

thread creep ... but since I've learned about Daniel's prophesy of Messiah's being cut-off ... it's amazed me the Pharisees & Sadducees both failed to recognize Messiah was standing in front of them as they knew THAT was the year Messiah was to be "cut-off" per Daniel 9. (or whatever is the Torah designation)
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Two Wings said:
In studying what Jesus told us about the Last Days ... "Like the days of Noah" ... I've come to understand that this includes the nephilim.

Is it possible Judas could have been one of these?

I mean, how do you have such a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and be unable to respond to the Spirit ... unless you have no spirit.

7 of the 8 people boarding the Ark were 100% human. Ham's wife wasn't. They beget Canaan; father of the 7 tribes The Son later smites ahead of the Joshua led Hebrews.

I'm not stating as fact ... but reconciling the free will vice predestination in this context brings me to this possibility.

thread creep ... but since I've learned about Daniel's prophesy of Messiah's being cut-off ... it's amazed me the Pharisees & Sadducees both failed to recognize Messiah was standing in front of them as they knew THAT was the year Messiah was to be "cut-off" per Daniel 9. (or whatever is the Torah designation)
Click to expand...
Judas was a normal lost sinner, who fulfilled the prophecies of God concerning one who would betray Christ!
 
T

Two Wings

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Judas was a normal lost sinner, who fulfilled the prophecies of God concerning one who would betray Christ!
Click to expand...

yessir, I recognize he was prophesied to betray in John ... perhaps Ps 41? That doesn't make him "perfect in his generation." (Gen 6)

Again, I'm not suggesting emphatically this is true that Judas was a nephilim ...
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Two Wings said:
yessir, I recognize he was prophesied to betray in John ... perhaps Ps 41? That doesn't make him "perfect in his generation." (Gen 6)

Again, I'm not suggesting emphatically this is true that Judas was a nephilim ...
Click to expand...
he illusrates to us the harmony of the will of God and our desires being done, as it was the will of God to fulfill the OT prophecy Judas fulfilled, but he was willing and desired to do that evil deed also!
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Dave I only have one question for you, was Judas a sinner? Yes or No.
Click to expand...
Yes, he was.
And yes, Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners...and Him saving sinners is defined even further by His words in many places.

To me, it's as if you've not read, nor believed John 6, Romans 8, Romans 9, Romans 10, Romans 11, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, 2 Thessalonians 2, the Psalms or much of the rest that describe the how and the why that people come to Christ in belief...
Because it is given to them to do so ( Philippians 1:29 ), not because they actively did something to get Him to save them.

Again, Silverhair, you and I read and understand the Bible very differently, and after 43+ years of being a believer, one thing I can tell you for sure is...
God does not love everyone equally;
Not even close.

Jesus did not know Judas as one of His sheep, and Judas was used by God to fulfill the Scriptures...as "harsh" as that may seem to many who read this.
God did not love him, or He would not have set things up the way He did.
That is what the Scriptures say, not simply what I am saying.

Salvation is not predicated on what we do...
It's predicated on what God does with rebellious and unrepentant sinners whose hearts He either changes, or does not.

Finally, for Judas to have repented, it would have had to been granted to him by the Lord through the new birth.
Being the son of perdition, he was not given that privilege by God.

That said, I've really no more to say to you on this subject...
but I do hope that you one day come to see that eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) that is given because of the Lord's deciding to have favor on someone, and not because He "offered" it to us.
 
Last edited:
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
First, you imagine it is clear and no doubt you think your idea is correct. Others show you that Jesus did not atone for Judas sin and you get all bent out of shape.
You cannot acknowledge that atonement means fully paid for. If Jesus fully paid for Judas sins then Judas was made perfect and holy by the blood of Christ. God would be casting a person, whose sins are fully paid for, into hell.
Do you teach that fully atoned persons are spending eternity in hell, even though God sees no sin due to the atoning sacrifice of Christ?
Click to expand...

Dude, I have NEVER said that Jesus Christ has ATONED for Judas! What I have said many times, that Jesus DIED for the sins of Judas, and every human ever to live. There is a HUGE difference, which you should know about!!! :eek:
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Even in the Old Testament we see God determining who he would forgive.
There is no evidence that God forgave Judas. Thus, Judas sin was never atoned for.
With David, God reveals sin, David repents, God forgives.
2 Samuel 12:7,13 Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul. David said to Nathan,

“I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.

With Judas we do not see Judas repenting. We see him hating his own life for his betrayal. He never repents.
Remember that God is the cause of reconciliation and repentance is the effect. We see that in David. We don't see that in Judas.
Acts 1:17-19 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Judas died hopeless. David suffered the effects of his sin, but died with hope later in life.

Again, I ask, did the partaking in the Seder meal save Judas?
Click to expand...

Did partaking in the Seder meal save Judas, no as only God can save, and He will save anyone that trusts in Him. Judas did not trust in Christ Jesus and was lost.

>>“I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.<<

Please notice that David repented and confessed his sin and was told that because of that his sin was forgiven.

The atonement is meant for all and thus salvation is available to all. Were we all not sinners, were we all not ungodly? Limited atonement is not a biblical doctrine as the following scriptures show.

1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Salvation is only limited by those that choose to reject the good faith offer of God. To restrict it to only those that God allows to hear and trust would void the reason for the cross and the message.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Rom 5:6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

These scriptures should be sufficient to show that the atonement is for all and salvation is for those that trust in Christ Jesus. God desires all to be saved;

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Should we want anything less?
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Dude, I have NEVER said that Jesus Christ has ATONED for Judas! What I have said many times, that Jesus DIED for the sins of Judas, and every human ever to live. There is a HUGE difference, which you should know about!!! :eek:
Click to expand...
And what exactly is that difference?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
Yes, he was.
And yes, Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners...and Him saving sinners is defined even further by His words in many places.

To me, it's as if you've not read, nor believed John 6, Romans 8, Romans 9, Romans 10, Romans 11, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2, 2 Thessalonians 2, the Psalms or much of the rest that describe the how and the why that people come to Christ in belief...
Because it is given to them to do so ( Philippians 1:29 ), not because they actively did something to get Him to save them.

Again, Silverhair, you and I read and understand the Bible very differently, and after 43+ years of being a believer, one thing I can tell you for sure is...
God does not love everyone equally;
Not even close.

Jesus did not know Judas as one of His sheep, and Judas was used by God to fulfill the Scriptures...as "harsh" as that may seem to many who read this.
God did not love him, or He would not have set things up the way He did.
That is what the Scriptures say, not simply what I am saying.

Salvation is not predicated on what we do...
It's predicated on what God does with rebellious and unrepentant sinners whose hearts He either changes, or does not.

Finally, for Judas to have repented, it would have had to been granted to him by the Lord through the new birth.
Being the son of perdition, he was not given that privilege by God.

That said, I've really no more to say to you on this subject...
but I do hope that you one day come to see that eternal life is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) that is given because of the Lord's deciding to have favor on someone, and not because He "offered" it to us.
Click to expand...

>>God does not love everyone equally;Not even close.<<

This one comment shows the real divide between you and I. While I see God that reaches out to His creation with real desire that all be saved you do not.
What kind of God you follow I do not know but he is not the one that is found in the bible. If you want to see the heart of God look at Christ Jesus. God was willing to sacrifice His own son so that man could be saved.
As you have said we will continue to disagree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top