False Religion of Arminianism

[37818]

Are you attempting to teach Amyraldism in this thread?

No. I believe in a total depravity. Romans 3:11.
A conditional election. That salvation is solely an unmerited gift. Ephesians 2;8.
In noth particular redemption and the general redemption. 2 Corinthians 5:14.
God's grace can be rejected. Hebrews 10:29.
God solely does the saving and the keeping. John 10:27-30. Matthew 11:29-30.

 

[KenH]

You got it wrong. Yes, Christ died so secure His sheep. But He indeed died for all of man kind. 1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19.

Neither does 1 John 2:2 do your argument any good. Seriously, you should fold your losing hand.

"that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles עלמא, "the world"; and העולם כל, "the whole world"; and העולם אומות, "the nations of the world"

...

in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Luke 2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1 John 5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption;"

John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

 

[KenH]

No. I believe in a total depravity. Romans 3:11.
A conditional election. That salvation is solely an unmerited gift. Ephesians 2;8.
In noth particular redemption and the general redemption. 2 Corinthians 5:14.
God's grace can be rejected. Hebrews 10:29.
God solely does the saving and the keeping. John 10:27-30. Matthew 11:29-30.

Well, not exactly sure how to classify your convoluted teaching, other than it sure isn't the gospel of Christ.

 

[Reformed1689]

You got it wrong. Yes, Christ died so secure His sheep. But He indeed died for all of man kind. 1 John 2:2, 1 John 5:19.

And world does not equal individuals sorry.

"The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that literally mean every individual? No, that is absurd. So why do you force Scripture to say that?

 

[37818]

1 John 5:19 does your argument no good. The elect are of God(as the verse says), it is the world(those who are not regenerated) who under the sway of the evil one(as the verse says).

There are not two of "the whole world."

 

[KenH]

There are not two of "the whole world."

The followers of Christ are not part of "the whole world" in that verse.

 

[Iconoclast]

Awww someone was let out of the cage too soon

Ken H is a mature,solid, and well read believer
You attempt to diminish his posting by assigning to him the cage stage label,which evidently you do not understand.
Try and engage KenH directly and he will quickly demonstrate who knows what time it is.

 

[37818]

And world does not equal individuals sorry.

"The eyes of the whole world are on this moment." Does that literally mean every individual? No, that is absurd. So why do you force Scripture to say that?

The word of God is self authenticating. John in his letter referred to the whole world twice. Now Jesus twice used the whole world as a figured of speech. Once of gain and once of those hearing the gospel of the woman anointing Him.

 

[KenH]

Ken H is a mature,solid, and well read believer
You attempt to diminish his posting by assigning to him the cage stage label,which evidently you do not understand.
Try and engage KenH directly and he will quickly demonstrate who knows what time it is.

Thanks! I am just thankful that Christ lived a perfectly righteous life and died for "such a worm as I."

 

[Iconoclast]

Without the general redemption there is no gospel for the not yet a believer to hear Christ died for one's sins, Romans 5:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

You continue to use Roman's 5...which speaks of the justified elect who have the Spirit and peace of God.

 

[37818]

1 John 5:19 does your argument no good. The elect are of God(as the verse says), it is the world(those who are not regenerated) who under the sway of the evil one(as the verse says).

It means the general redemption. Those who deny this do not make it not so. The general redemption is evident in Christ's words as given in Luke 22:20-21. His betrayer being one of them at the table. Mere denial does not disprove the general redemption. It is part of the gospel per 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.

 

[37818]

You continue to use Roman's 5...which speaks of the justified elect who have the Spirit and peace of God.

It, Romans 5:8 also teaches the general redemption. Without which the not yet saved "elect" can know Christ died for them to believe. There is no gospel without the general redemption. Without the promise Christ died for one what is there to believe?

 

[37818]

Neither does 1 John 2:2 do your argument any good. Seriously, you should fold your losing hand.

"that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles עלמא, "the world"; and העולם כל, "the whole world"; and העולם אומות, "the nations of the world"

...

in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, Luke 2:1; and so it is in this epistle, 1 John 5:19; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption;"

John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

Commentary is opinion.

 

[37818]

The followers of Christ are not part of "the whole world" in that verse.

1 John 2:2? You mean 1 John 5:19. But we were, Romans 5:8.

 

[Brightfame52]

Arminianism teaches that men dont have to be born again or made spiritually alive before he believes in Christ, so in essence they teach that faith/believing is the act of the spiritually dead sinner, and then that results in the new birth or spiritual life. So the spiritually dead sinner did something to which spiritual life is given in response, according to arminianism.

 

[KenH]

Commentary is opinion.

So? A rather odd comment. That is what you have been doing in this thread, as well.

 

[Reformed1689]

The word of God is self authenticating.

Agreed, which is why we know it doesn't mean every individual.

 

[37818]

Agreed, which is why we know it doesn't mean every individual.

Wow. You know we disagree on this.
What is the gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:3-4? How does the yet unbelieving know Christ paid for their sins? The understanding of the general redemption.

 

[AustinC]

No. I believe in a total depravity. Romans 3:11.
A conditional election. That salvation is solely an unmerited gift. Ephesians 2;8.
In noth particular redemption and the general redemption. 2 Corinthians 5:14.
God's grace can be rejected. Hebrews 10:29.
God solely does the saving and the keeping. John 10:27-30. Matthew 11:29-30.

Would you explain the condition required and how that condition doesn't contradict with an unmerited gift?
Your statement here seems to be contradictory.

 

[DaveXR650]

How does the yet unbelieving know Christ paid for their sins? The understanding of the general redemption.

Remember, the people who come to Christ are given a promise by Jesus that they are allowed to come to him and they will not be rejected. He paid for the sins of those that come. Those that Christ did not die for will not come but it's because they don't want to come. Don't tie yourself in knots worrying that maybe God forgot to include someone in the atonement who wants to come. You can trust God. He's got this!

Also, I respect classical Arminianism and I understand why people might go in that direction. But the argument that you can have a conditional election doesn't make sense. If it's conditional then the condition is the reason - not election. Arminians should discard that argument.