Difference between living forever, and having eternal life... Eternal life denotes being with God, immortality is departed from Him!
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Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?
- Thread starter Hobie
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Please describe in simple and understandable terms the difference between
"living forever"
and
"having eternal life"
I speak English.
I know what words mean.
No.
"Eternal life" denotes "Eternal life".
"Being with God" denotes "Being with God".
You are asserting that "Eternal life" connotes "being with God".
Please show the Scriptures which teach that.
Agreed, if you mean that immortality does not exist without him...
A million verses assert this.
You are asserting that immortality can be gained without Christ.
I disagree.
I see no Scripture which promises immortality without Christ.
You believe immortality and Eternal Life are available outside of Christ.
Which verses do you know of which teach that Eternal life is available to those who deny Christ?
Why do you think that those who deny Christ will live forever?
Why don't you accept that Eternal life is only promised to the believer?
I believe that the non-believer will perish....
You do not.
Why do you believe that non-believers do not "perish".
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God created all of us in his own image, and gave to all immortal souls, and Jesus resurrection bought for all resurrection, some unto judgment others into bliss and joy!
That's Biblical.
That is not.
Yes, some to the resurrection unto life, and some to the resurrection unto damnation.
There's verses about that:
Jhn 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
No, some "unto judgment" others into LIFE.
You keep asserting that the non-believers inherit eternal life...
I see no Scripture which teaches the non-believer inherits eternal life.
Where is that Scripture???[
they have immortal souls, but do not possess eternal life as in being in Christ!
Show me that Scripture....
Matthew 13:42 in the furnance and yet still living!
Read vs. 40....
Mat 13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
What happens to things "burned in the fire"????
duh...What is a "tare"...
And why would one put it into a fire????
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Why do you reject Eternal hell? the same term used to describe length of time for heaven used of hell!
"Hell" is thrown into the Lake of fire...
We've been through this:
Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
You were too lazy to think about what was just said and spelled out for you in black and white.
"Hell" isn't synonymous with the eternal state of the non-believer...
because it is cast into a "lake of fire". (Lakes of fire destroy things placed into them)…..duh....
You ignored that completely, because it isn't a parroting of your presuppositions.
Newsflash....
Believers don't spend eternity in "Heaven".
Abandon folk Religion and "I'll fly Away" Theology and read the Scriptures, you'll learn something.
And, yes, it is appropriate to describe the Lake of Fire as "eternal"...
Why would you assume, however, that those cast into it consciously survive in it eternally?????
Oh, that's right, because you are an adherent of a stupid and incoherent folk religion....that's why.]
Jesus and His Apostles warned that hell was eternal, eternal in time and existence, guess they were all hicks and stupid too?
No, they didn't...
They'd never heard of the word "Hell"....
It's a pagan concept, and they never would have used it.
The Lake of Fire is indeed as Eternal as the Bible warrants....
That doesn't mean you'll survive in it forever.
Our God IS A CONSUMING FIRE.
Deu 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deu 9:3
Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.
Heb 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
God is a consuming fire, and his wrath abideth on the damned eternally.
They do NOT survive a "CONSUMING" fire.
The wicked fall into the eternal wrath of a "consuming" fire......
You don't believe the Bible teaching that the wicked are cast into a "consuming" fire...
You have been taught they live forever in a rather unpleasant place of torture:
Jesus and his disciples weren't stupid hicks....
You are.
A maggot....
Maggots only feed on dead flesh.
For thousands of years, doctors have used maggots to clean wounds because maggots only feed on corpses...
They WILL NOT eat living flesh.
I'm glad you brought up Isaiah 66:
The passage is entirely about dead corpses:
Isa 66:16
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
Isa 66:24
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
God shall, in his wrath, slay the ungodly, and their worm (maggot) shall not die, but consume all. It will be abhorent to all who see this.That is Bible.
Please show me the Scripture where God says that the unrighteous will not be destroyed and eaten by maggots....
But, the one where they are gifted Eternal Life as you assert.
the scriptures using those images to show to us the reality of just how bad eternal hell shall be!
Again, why do you reject concept of eternal hell?
No, they paint a picture of corpses.....
Not whatever you said.
"Hell" is not a Biblical term...but "hades" is...
and it is cast into a lake of fire
I've shown this repeatedly from Scripture and you insist on conflating those two concepts.....Because you do not, nor ever have cared much for the testament of Scripture,
In that verse, "hell" is a KJV mistranslation of 'hades'. Such goofs & booboos is why I don't use the KJV very much.
"Hell" is the lake of fire. "Hades" is the temporary abode of the souls of the dead.
Jesus, speaking of Capernaum, said that it would be more tolerable for Sodom, Tyre, & Sidon than for Capernaum. This is found in six different verses.
Rev. 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Again, in that passage, "hell" is a KJV mistranslation of 'hades'.
I pointed out that 'hell' is a mistranslation of 'hades' in the KJV. Don't believe it? Then, look up the Greek yourself.
And Rev. 20 :10 tells it all. Remember, its events take place after the millenium of Jesus' reign on earth, so the beast & the false prophet had already been there 1K years. And the verse says "where they ARE", not where they WERE. Again, you may look up the Greek for yourself.
And here's another verse for you, speaking of those who take the marka the beast- Rev. 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Now, please tell us again that the LOF isn't eternal !
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