John Gerstner's Unbiblical Nonsense!

[SavedByGrace]

By the way you take Matthew 7 out of context.

like you do on most things!

 

[Dave G]

He said "whoever BELIEVES." Again, who does that leave out besides Satan & his demons among whose who DO believe? It tells me that ANY PERSON is eligible to believe & be saved.

False teachers, false believers and anyone who is not foreknown and predestinated, roby.
You're missing Romans 8:29-30, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Acts of the Apostles 2:37, Acts of the Apostles 2:47, Romans 9, Romans 10:20, Romans 11:1-8 and many more.
Respectfully, we've been all through this.

Scripture actually defines the "whosoever believeth" as being those that God has foreknown.
No one outside of the foreknown and predestinated will ever be justified by the blood of His Son.

If you don't want to acknowledge those passages, and many more, you don't have to.
But they are in the Bible, and they do say that they mean and mean what they say.

The words speak for themselves.

So, the next time you ask me this question, don't say that I didn't show you Scripture, OK?
That is the only place that I get this information from, my friend.

 

[Tsalagi]

That still doesn't equal all individuals. That's not the question John 3:16 is answering by your own standard. God loved the human race stop. Yes. The human race has nothing to do with individual people. Of that human race, he saves the ones that believe. Yes. What John 3:16 does not answer is who will believe. Only the elect will believe because they are the sheep.

You have it backwards. Only those who believe are elect because only those who believe are "in Him" (Ephesians 1:4).

The sheep in the gospels are Israel, not the church.

 

[Tsalagi]

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree. By the way you take Matthew 7 out of context.

Saying it doesn't make it so. The "out of context" reply only has traction if you show in what way context is being violated, which you haven't done.

 

[Dave G]

why? I would like to see Scripture for this?

SBG,
I've shown you Scripture after Scripture on other subjects...

To me, there's no reason to suspect that you'll simply reject anything else that I have to offer on any subject that we discuss.
But I'm still willing to try.

Good afternoon to you, sir.

 

[Tsalagi]

False teachers, false believers and anyone who is not foreknown and predestinated, roby.
You're missing Romans 8:29-30, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Acts of the Apostles 2:37, Acts of the Apostles 2:47, Romans 9, Romans 10:20, Romans 11:1-8 and many more.
Respectfully, we've been all through this.

Scripture actually defines the "whosoever believeth" as being those that God has foreknown.
No one outside of the foreknown and predestinated will ever be justified by the blood of His Son.

If you don't want to acknowledge those passages, and many more, you don't have to.
But they are in the Bible, and they do say that they mean and mean what they say.

The words speak for themselves.

So, the next time you ask me this question, don't say that I didn't show you Scripture, OK?
That is the only place that I get this information from, my friend.

If you are genuinely interested in hearing a biblically sound perspective, different from your own, on each of the passages you mention above, I will be glad to offer in a fresh thread since this one is about to petrify. If the words simply and truly "spoke for themselves," as genuine seekers of truth (which I believe you to be based on observation) we and many others would not have a difference of understanding.

 

[Dave G]

f you are geniunely interested in hearing a biblically sound perspective, different from your own, on each of the passages you mention above, I will be glad to offer in a fresh thread since this one is about to petrify.

Thank you sir, but I have a Bible and can read it.
I also trust the Lord to show me truth from error.

I do however, appreciate the offer.

May God bless you this day and everyday.

 

[AustinC]

IF anyone is chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world, then what is the point of preaching the Gospel to them? they are, according to reformed theology, saved in eternity past!

Read Jesus commission. Why must you constantly question what God says in the Bible if it doesn't conform with your opinion of what is best?
At some point you are going to have to accept what God says in the Bible and stop looking for loopholes where you remain your own ruler.
Go to the Bible and answer your own question. God tells you the answer, but will you actually accept what God says?

 

[AustinC]

the OP is NOT about God's Justice, so forget this strawman argument. Read the OP again

It actually is, if you ever care to read what Gerstner said and grasp it.

 

[AustinC]

don't like been proven wrong again!

It amazes me that you have provided nothing, yet you think you have proved something.

 

[AustinC]

Not everything that God does is an occasion for rejoicing, according to Scripture. Using your logic we should rejoice that the Lord Jesus has triumphed over the dark principalities and powers of this world, and we are the beneficiaries of that victory. But that's not what the Bible says: Luke 10:19-20, "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Rejoicing in another's judgment is manifestly unscriptural. God does not rejoice in it, as already noted in Ezekiel (18:23, 18:32, 33:11). We should not either:

Job 31:29: "Have I rejoiced over my enemy's distress, or become excited when trouble came his way?"

Proverbs 24:19: "Do not gloat when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart rejoice when he stumbles, or the LORD will see and disapprove, and turn His wrath away from him."

"Rejoice" is the word Gerstner used, and he is manifestly wrong.

Again, do you rejoice in God's justice or not? Pretty simple question.

 

[AustinC]

Indeed, to the Jew first and then the Gentile! Do you know what this means? Since the entire world is either Jew or Gentile, this means that the Gospel of Salvation from sins, is for the entire human race. No other way to take this. The reformed version is rubbish, not the Bibles!

No one disagrees that the gospel is a message for all humanity. You keep running down off-topic trails. Hmmm....[emoji848]

 

[robycop3]

Doesn't just say "Whoever" does it?

Whoever believes. Doesn't rule out anyone from believing.

 

[AustinC]

LOL, the annihilationist certainly has nothing to add regarding hell.

Is God just? Will the saints rejoice in God's justice as Gerstner asserted?

 

[AustinC]

God created us with the independent ability to choose our own path. He "intends" to save any and all who respond to His undeserved grace and love (John 3:16).

Joshua 24:15: "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Thank you for this perfect example of eisegesis and mishandling of scripture. May everyone take note.
You assert a fallacy and then attempt to prove it with a verse that addresses the chosen people of God under the Sinai/Mosaic Covenant, which has nothing to do with eternal salvation. Bravo.

 

[Tsalagi]

First off, that isn't what I said. I called @SavedByGrace a liar because he has repeatedly told lies about others on this forum. That's calling out his SIN. You can try and twist it how you want but I don't care. He is a liar and has repeatedly done so on this forum and needs to be held accountable.

May I ask what authority you claim for holding other members here accountable for sin and judging them accordingly? John 9:34-41 might be worth a second look since you seem allergic to Matthew 7.

 

[Tsalagi]

Thank you sir, but I have a Bible and can read it.
I also trust the Lord to show me truth from error.

I do however, appreciate the offer.

May God bless you this day and everyday.

Remember the story of the man in the ocean who rejected offers of help from three different boats because he was trusting God to deliver him? ;-)

 

[AustinC]

He says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HELL, BECAUSE NO WRITER OF SCRIPTURE DOES.
He says PLENTY about the fate of the damned: (as all Scripture writers do)
He says PLENTY about the fate of the lost: (as all Scripture writers do)

And he says God takes no pleasure in their "DEATH".
"DEATH" is the fate of the wicked.

That's true from Genesis chapter 2: to Rev. 22
Ezekiel is lamenting the fate of the damned......
You just don't see it because you already think you know what Ezekiel thinks the fate of the damned is, and you refuse to let him instruct you on it.

You are imposing your own bias on the entirety of all Scripture.........including Ezekiel

Wait, so the verses on hell by Matthew, Luke and Peter are not shared in your Bible? The passages written by John in the Revelation are not actually there?
Excuse me, I choose to actually accept the entire text of scripture, which is why you cannot be correct.

 

[Yeshua1]

"Destroyed" means: "Destroyed".
Prove otherwise.

No one has brought up "Cease to exist" except you:
I agree, The Bible says nothing about "Cease to exist".

The Bible does say: "DESTROY".
and "DESTROY" means "DESTROY".

Your move.

Do you hold that Destroy means burnt up, no more existing?

 

[AustinC]

so why preach to the whole human race, when God can make sure that only the elect hear the Gospel?

Read your Bible. What does God say. Hint, start with Romans 9.