Perhaps that plus a couple of large screen TV's for showing the webcasts.
Maybe some colored spot lights.
A strobe or two?
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Problems with Orthodoxy and Catholicism
- Thread starter Thinkingstuff
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Perhaps that plus a couple of large screen TV's for showing the webcasts.
Maybe some colored spot lights.
A strobe or two?
Alive in Christ
New Member
Because God was starting something new. The new covenant. A new direction, and way of life and worship, for the new covenant church.
The early church was starting to stagnate in Jerusalem. God orchestrated persecution to FORCE His church to scatter...and subsequently start the "new thing" that God desired. The New Covenant church.
And history attests that from the very beggining there has been an unbroken string of people who refused to yoke with the unbiblical monstrosities that have masquaraded as Gods "Church".
Praise God!
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Yes, they're called bishops. But you knew that already, didn't you? If liturgy was so wrong, why did the Apostles use it, as you yourself admit? You seem to be suggesting they got it wrong. If that is the case, that casts into doubt everything else they did - like the writing of the NT for example. Care to ditch that as well?
Is outrage! The band should always be in front of the altar, and ideally to one side of it - everyone knows that!
Alive in Christ
New Member
Where do you get the idea that Apostles are inerrant and incapable of error?
They were but fallible men.
Only Christ was inerrant during His time on earth.
.
They surely did lots of things wrong, being as they are not inerrant. Have you forgotten Paul rebuking Peter to his face for Peters Hypocrisy?
No, we have Gods testimony that the entirety of His written revelation is perfect, and without error, and that we are to turn there, and nowhere else for our authority regarding doctrine and practice.
We do NOT have that assurance regarding everything the apostles ever said or did.
You are falling in line "lock step" with these poor Catholics and Orthodox who fall for so many heresies and blasphemies simply because certain "high and lofty" so called *enlightened* religious *leaders* tell them what is *true*, even though it isnt.
Then why did Paul enjoin Timothy to 'hold fast to the pattern of sound teaching that he heard from him' (2 Tim 1:13) - not written down but heard - and to entrust this "what you have heard me say...to reliable men who will be qualified to teach others'? We're quite clearly not talking about Scripture here but oral teaching. That's the elephant in your theological drawing room right now and you're going to have to deal with it.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Matt...
Because this was very early in the new covenant dispensation. They didnt exactly have copiers and printers and word processors back then, did they? :laugh:
It took a while for everything to be inscripturated.
I have just done that. The early christians did the best they could during the years when the scriptures were, in due time, being inscripturated. Until the scriptures were compiled perfectly, the oral wisdom was surely better than nothing during that time. But as more and more truth was inscripturated, the other (oral) wisdom could be retained of discarded as it was compared to the light of Gods truth.
Because this was very early in the new covenant dispensation. They didnt exactly have copiers and printers and word processors back then, did they? :laugh:
It took a while for everything to be inscripturated.
I have just done that. The early christians did the best they could during the years when the scriptures were, in due time, being inscripturated. Until the scriptures were compiled perfectly, the oral wisdom was surely better than nothing during that time. But as more and more truth was inscripturated, the other (oral) wisdom could be retained of discarded as it was compared to the light of Gods truth.
And your evidence for this conjecture is...?
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Neither of the above are good proof texts for your arguments: the former excludes all the NT and the latter most of it. I suggest you start over...
Previously on the Baptist Board...
Why is 2 Tim 1:13 no longer profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness?
Are there any other portions of Scripture that Alive in Christ would like to discard?
Matt Black said:
Why is 2 Tim 1:13 no longer profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness?
Are there any other portions of Scripture that Alive in Christ would like to discard?
Oh I see .... we've worked Catholicism into yet another dam thread. Havent we already killed them all off, now lets pee on the graves!:laugh:
No folk bands with acoustic guitars singing Kum By Ah (sic) your going to have to get the German Shepherd to sort this out...an outrage.
BTW...I suggest purple smoke for affect.:wavey:
Indeed....
Did you try to do a Sean Connery impression just then?. did you pose your body sideways & raise your one eyebrow, crossed your arms, put on a dinner jacket to express that very regal & intellectual "Indeed".....
with your best British posh accent.
I counter with the very American "Wow, Dude! " with my favorite tee depicting a squirl holding a stick and the very apt "Protect Your nuts"
We just luv that Brit accent! :thumbs:
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Sean Connery is Scottish. And have you notice the best bonds aren't English. Though Daniel Craig is changing this opinion of mine.
how do you believe Jesus Christ, a Jew mind you, worshiped during his ministry?...where do you see Christ correcting His Disciples to throw away their liturgical form of worship they were accustomed to being Jews themselves and adopting this "new way of life and worship"?
Where AiC, show the class...
The only place in Holy Scripture we see, not really a "change", but an addition to the style of "worship" was at the Last Supper...here we still see a liturgical form of worship the Apostles were familiar with it...but Christ introduces the Eucharist...and from there we read in the Books, Letters and Epistles of the NT how the Eucharist is incorporated into worship.
show the class from early Church history that your way of worship today (in a non-liturgical form) is the "new direction" you speak of God starting?
we've had practicing Jews in our community visit our Orthodox Divine Liturgy and comment how closely our Liturgy is to theirs up until the Bread and Wine are brought to the altar and the Eucharistic liturgical form of the NT takes over.
we also throughout the year receive a number of protestants and Roman Catholics that are discouraged by the evolution of worship in their church. How dead and Hollywood production it's become...even the Baptist Fundamental Church I was raised in now has a Bluegrass band that performs...absolutely ridiculous..
I praise God that He's lead me into the Orthodox Christian Church...were our liturgical structure has remained the same for 2,000 years...the ONLY evolution of our Liturgy came in the form of shortening the liturgy...
My relatives complain and moan about the changes in their Church...I just smile at them...they tell me..."you just wait, your church will change too"...I just continue to smile...It'll never happen...
you really need to stop drinking the kool-aid...seriously, it's bad for you...
God didn't "orchestrate persecution" to scatter his Church...LOL...The NT shows St. Paul, setting up Churches throught Aisa Minor...what are you even talking about...The Apostles are doing extactly as Christ commanded them to do...Go forth into all the land and make desciples...the Apostles didn't all hang around Jerusalem and wait until persecution and then "scatter"...seriously, you need to learn HOW to think and not WHAT to think...this fairy tale is old...
In XC
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Dr. Walter
New Member
Both of those scriptures are continuing truths applicable to all that is Scripture at any time and any place.
Oral tradition always precedes inspired inscription and inspired inscription always supersedes oral tradition. Proof? Look at Jesus and his authority for what He taught! He ALWAYS based it upon scripture. He pointed out the flaws of oral traditions (Mt. 15) but in contrast said the scriptures "cannot be broken."
For example, Moses simply recorded what was previously oral tradition. However, all the prophets quoted Moses as authority not previous oral traditions. Jesus always quoted Moses and the prophets but never oral traditions that were superseded by such scripture.
The same is true with the apostles. They were not inerrant but sinners and Peter tells us very plainly that scriptures are a "MORE SURE WORD" than his own personal experience he communicated orally to them:
16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
He says this in order that they might not be led astray by the ORATORY of false prophets (2 Pet. 2:1).
The Scriptures do not regard ORAL TRADITION as permenant or as equal to the authority of Scriptures but temporary and subordinate to the Scriptures as the Scriptures are "A MORE SURE WORD" than oral tradition even from the Apostle Peter.
Those who reverse this Biblical order are those who seek to teach false doctrines which they cannot support by the scriptures (Mt. 15). Jesus NEVER placed oral tradition on equality with Scripture and NEVER defended anything by oral traditions. That should be enough to demonstrate it is an UNCHRIST LIKE position.
I guess Paul and Timothy didn't get your memo, then.
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